Who would you want on the mound T206 era in clutch game?

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by T206Jim

Take it from a HOF manager of the period. "I just used Albert - the greatest money pitcher of all time, I'd tell Albert when I planned to use him in a crucial series, then I relaxed, he never let me down." said Connie Mack of Charles Albert Bender.

Jim, great pitcher, but I know you're kidding....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Jim, great pitcher, but I know you're kidding....

No, he isn't, Mack did say that.

[T206Jim]

Kevin, for the scenario you described check out the 1905, and 1910-1912 World Series. You'd be hard pressed to do better than either Matty or the Chief during that era.

[CMIZ5290]

No, I know Mack loved Bender and said that. I wonder if he would have bypassed Bender for Walter Johnson. He was a great baseball man, and my hunch says yes....

[Kenny Cole]

I think the problem with nominating WaJo is that his post-season didn't come until late in his career and, while it was good, it wasn't great. And the post-season is pretty well where it is in terms of being clutch. Doesn't matter if you win 30 and finish 30 behind IMO. I imagine he probably would have been great if he had been in the post-season earlier, but he wasn't, so his clutch greatness in that arena simply isn't demonstrable. The fact that the other guys were is.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

I think the problem with nominating WaJo is that his post-season didn't come until late in his career and, while it was good, it wasn't great. And the post-season is pretty well where it is in terms of being clutch. Doesn't matter if you win 30 and finish 30 behind IMO. I imagine he probably would have been great if he had been in the post-season earlier, but he wasn't, so his clutch greatness in that arena simply isn't demonstrable. The fact that the other guys were is.

It's a pretty fair inference based on his being, easily, the best and most dominating pitcher ever.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's a pretty fair inference based on his being, easily, the best and most dominating pitcher ever.

See Clayton Kershaw. Great pitcher? Yes. Great post season pitcher? Not in my book. He seems to routinely get his ass torn off.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

See Clayton Kershaw. Great pitcher? Yes. Great post season pitcher? Not in my book. He seems to routinely get his ass torn off.

Yep, one highly unusual example.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's a pretty fair inference based on his being, easily, the best and most dominating pitcher ever.

Yep, have to agree....

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

I think the problem with nominating WaJo is that his post-season didn't come until late in his career and, while it was good, it wasn't great. And the post-season is pretty well where it is in terms of being clutch. Doesn't matter if you win 30 and finish 30 behind IMO. I imagine he probably would have been great if he had been in the post-season earlier, but he wasn't, so his clutch greatness in that arena simply isn't demonstrable. The fact that the other guys were is.

Johnson's world series games, in his 18th and 19th seasons:
1924, game 1: Loses 4-3 in 12 innings, 165 pitches, only runs in regulation are two home runs into temporary bleachers in left field, otherwise a shutout win.
1924, game 5: Loses 6-2, 13 hits, behind 3-2 into last inning.
1924, game 7: With one day's rest, comes in to a 3-3 tie in the 9th, holds the powerful Giants (8 HOF hitters) scoreless for four innings, possibly the great "clutch" pitching performance of all time.
1925, game 1: 4-1 win, 5 hits over Pirates team with .316 season BA.
1925, game 4: 4-0 win, 6 hit shutout.
1925, game 7: Loses 9-7, 15 hits, 5 Pirate runs in last two innings of famous "rain game," possibly the worst conditions any major league game has ever been played in.
A mixed bag, as has been said, but not even close to showing that he wasn't a "clutch" pitcher. What would he have done in the world series in his dominant decade of 1910-1919?

[Wite3]

I would probably take Johnson if the game is on the line...a close second and third would be Grove and Alexander.

[brian1961]

Big Ed Walsh.