Partially ripping a card opening the mail

[TheNightmanCometh]

$800+

$800+, shipped with no protection.

If I spend that much money on a card and I receive it even in an envelope I'm going to assume that the seller did the right thing and protected it. The last thing I'm going to think is, "I better be careful opening this, it might not be protected". To me that should be a safe assumption, without question. The fact that some are putting this on the buyer is insane to me. We operate in a system of assumptions when we purchase on ebay. Sellers assume buyers are going to pay, buyers assume that sellers are going to ship the item with care. If at any point the item gets damaged, from the moment it's put in the envelope, to the moment it's securely out of the envelope, the condition of the card falls on the seller. If you rip an envelope open and damage the card, because it wasn't properly cared for when shipped, then the blame falls squarely on the seller.

This isn't a matter of personal responsibility, not to me. This is a matter of reasonable expectations as a buyer on ebay. You pay for something, you expect it to be shipped with care. The end result of the seller accidentally ripping the card is immaterial. It never would have been ripped if the seller had shipped the item with care. All other arguments about coffee and the like are just association fallacies to me as they don't have anything to do with the OPs situation.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by TheNightmanCometh

$800+

$800+, shipped with no protection.

If I spend that much money on a card and I receive it even in an envelope I'm going to assume that the seller did the right thing and protected it. The last thing I'm going to think is, "I better be careful opening this, it might not be protected".

The last thing you're going to think is that you should be careful opening a package with an $800 card? So suppose the thing is in a top loader, instead of ripping it you only crease it. Do you still blame the seller?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Mark17

So suppose the thing is in a top loader, instead of ripping it you only crease it. Do you still blame the seller?

Of course not. Totally different. In your scenario, the seller did what he was supposed to do to protect the card.

I answered your question, please answer mine:

Let's say the card (shipped the same way it was) would have been damaged during shipping by a postal machine. Is it the post office's fault, or does the seller assume liability since it wasn't packaged properly?

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Of course not. Totally different. In your scenario, the seller did what he was supposed to do to protect the card.

I answered your question, please answer mine:

Let's say the card (shipped the same way it was) would have been damaged during shipping by a postal machine. Is it the post office's fault, or does the seller assume liability since it wasn't packaged properly?

That would be 100% on the seller for the poor packaging, as would all other damage that may occur prior to the package ending up in the buyer's hands. I think I've been pretty clear about my opinion on this...............

Once the buyer has it in his possession, responsibility transfers to him. If he rips it or drops it in the toilet, that's his doing.

Look, this is pointless as we simply do not agree on the basic concepts involved. This will be my last post on this thread (I can hear the applause from across the country...)

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Mark17

That would be 100% on the seller for the poor packaging, as would all other damage that may occur prior to the package ending up in the buyer's hands. I think I've been pretty clear about my opinion on this...............

Once the buyer has it in his possession, responsibility transfers to him. If he rips it or drops it in the toilet, that's his doing.

Look, this is pointless as we simply do not agree on the basic concepts involved. This will be my last post on this thread (I can hear the applause from across the country...)

I gotcha. If the card is ripped by a postal machine because of the seller's poor packaging, it's the seller's fault, but if the card is ripped by the buyer because of the seller's poor packaging, it the buyer's fault.

What is the common denominator in either scenario? The seller's poor packaging.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I gotcha. If the card is ripped by a postal machine because of the seller's poor packaging, it's the seller's fault, but if the card is ripped by the buyer because of the seller's poor packaging, it the buyer's fault.

What is the common denominator in either scenario? The seller's poor packaging.

Hypotheticals work in both directions. I assume you would agree that there are scenarios in which both the seller and the buyer would have some culpability in a transaction that was not completed to everybody's liking. In your view, this is 100% seller and 0% buyer. But, I am sure I could dream up a series of facts about how the buyer received and opened the package, on the one hand, and how the seller wrapped and packaged the card, on the other hand, that could skew you off of the 0% vs. 100% position you've been taking here.

Given the facts we've been presented with (including no pictures or descriptions, etc.), I think it's pretty clear that there are degrees of fault on each side of the table. If I were the buyer, I'd complain to the seller about the shipping, but I'd probably eat the cost. If I were the seller, and a buyer came to me with this complaint, I would offer to refund most or all of the sale price. Even though I don't find the seller 100% at fault, I find it inexcusable to not work to rectify the problem for the buyer.

[frankbmd]

Did I miss anything?

[TheNightmanCometh]

Originally Posted by Mark17

The last thing you're going to think is that you should be careful opening a package with an $800 card? So suppose the thing is in a top loader, instead of ripping it you only crease it. Do you still blame the seller?

This is a false analogy. Your scenario has the card in a top loader and this card wasn't. Like I said before, ebay works on assumptions and one of those assumptions is that what you buy should be shipped with care. This entire thread would be moot if the seller had done what he was supposed to do. The fact that he didn't puts the blame squarely on him. This isn't a situation where the buyer spilled coffee on it, or dropped it in a toilet. This is a situation where the seller didn't protect the card AT ALL and as a result the buyer accidentally ripped it when he tried opening the envelope. The seller should immediately take responsibility and give the buyer a full refund. If he had packaged the item properly the card would have not been damaged.

Card packaged properly = no damage
Card not packaged properly = leaving it open to potential damage

This is the seller's responsibility and he failed. He eats the cost.