Your top 3 non HOFers

[MCoxon]

Originally Posted by Harliduck

I'm a huge Tony Oliva fan...still can't believe he isn't in.

Tony Oliva
Gil Hodges
Tommy John


Honorable Mention - Thurman Munson, Dale Murphy


All mentioned earlier, so sorry for the boring post...lol

I'm a HUGE Oliva guy. My friends won't open emails from me any more with Oliva in the subject line because they know I'm on the same broken record. Up until 71 when he hurt his knee, he was at the top of the AL in hitting and really all of MLB.

He won batting titles in his first two full seasons, won a 3rd, barely missed a 4th, all in his first 8 seasons. And he was a gold glove winner.

I always think he was hurt by having Carew in the early 70s, and in 65 Versalles winning the MVP, taking some of the attention away from him

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by MCoxon

I'm a HUGE Oliva guy. My friends won't open emails from me any more with Oliva in the subject line because they know I'm on the same broken record. Up until 71 when he hurt his knee, he was at the top of the AL in hitting and really all of MLB.

He won batting titles in his first two full seasons, won a 3rd, barely missed a 4th, all in his first 8 seasons. And he was a gold glove winner.

I always think he was hurt by having Carew in the early 70s, and in 65 Versalles winning the MVP, taking some of the attention away from him

IDK man, 41 WAR over 15 seasons, an .829 career OPS and a negative defensive rating aren't really HOF material. It sucks that his career really crashed and burned after he turned 31, but we have to judge players by what they did and not what they might have done if healthy. I think he's a hall of very good, but short of the HOF. ymmv

[MCoxon]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

IDK man, 41 WAR over 15 seasons, an .829 career OPS and a negative defensive rating aren't really HOF material. It sucks that his career really crashed and burned after he turned 31, but we have to judge players by what they did and not what they might have done if healthy. I think he's a hall of very good, but short of the HOF. ymmv

So tell me why we give the pass to Koufax who had arthritis in his left arm and retired at 30?

He ranks #82 in War for Pitchers

http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...h_career.shtml

He has 165 wins (#204 all time)

What happened if Koufax limped along and tried to play 6 more seasons with his arthritic elbow (he couldn't comb his hair on the days after he pitched in his last season), and his stats were poor in those 6 years. Would we have dinged him and had someone on these boards saying "he had a good run, but not HOF worthy in spite of his 5 great seasons because he had an otherwise mediocre 15 year career" (4 mediocre seasons early, 6 mediocre seasons late)?

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think probably the best case for Koufax is that his peak years, and admittedly there weren't many of them, were SO off the charts that he gets a pass for his early career and early departure. Oliva, while great for a decade, wasn't far and away the best hitter like Koufax was (ok, with a nod to the Dodger Stadium detractors) far and away the best pitcher.

Can someone explain Dizzy Dean to me, by the way. Koufax-like but even fewer peak years, maybe 3 or 4.

[MCoxon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think probably the best case for Koufax is that his peak years, and admittedly there weren't many of them, were SO off the charts that he gets a pass for his early career and early departure. Oliva, while great for a decade, wasn't far and away the best hitter like Koufax was (ok, with a nod to the Dodger Stadium detractors) far and away the best pitcher.

Can someone explain Dizzy Dean to me, by the way. Koufax-like but even fewer peak years, maybe 3 or 4.

Fair point. Oliva's peak was very very good, but not equal to Koufax's peak, which was otherworldly

I just love Oliva (including his personality) and get a bit biased....

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by MCoxon

Fair point. Oliva's peak was very very good, but not equal to Koufax's peak, which was otherworldly

I just love Oliva (including his personality) and get a bit biased....

I am that way about Dale Murphy ,who was my favorite player as a kid, but deep in my heart, I know his career fell off too quickly to be a HOF player.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

I am that way about Dale Murphy ,who was my favorite player as a kid, but deep in my heart, I know his career fell off too quickly to be a HOF player.

Not much room between Murphy and Rice though, and this from a Boston guy.