What makes a great show?

brightair · #1 07-09-2016, 06:06 PM

Free or cheap parking or at very least an event discount for parking that is independent of "VIP" ticket prices.
A designated table, perhaps in the food court area, where people who want to swap cards can gather and talk.
Richard D

Aquarian Sports Cards · #2 07-09-2016, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brightair

Free or cheap parking or at very least an event discount for parking that is independent of "VIP" ticket prices.
A designated table, perhaps in the food court area, where people who want to swap cards can gather and talk.
Richard D

I had actually thought of this, but the danger is someone monopolizing it and basically getting a dealer table for free.

Guys there's lots of great stuff in this thread. Obviously it's impossible to implement it all but since I am approaching this from the perspective of a dealer who has been dissatisfied, I've been at least pretty good about trying to rectify the things that have bugged me. Clearly some of those things have bothered you as well.

I'd love for you to head over to the facebook page for the show and share these (and other) thoughts there where I can respond without fear of abusing the hospitality of this forum. The name of the page is absolutely literal and should be easy to find. Hopefully I can live up to at least a good chunk of the expectations, that both sides of the table have, for a great show!

ValKehl · #3 07-09-2016, 11:13 PM

Dean,
What I am sensing from item 1. of your post is that the Chantilly Show (CSA) is no longer a joy to attend because it has not been well run since Marco Rol's departure. I can only speak as a collector who has not missed a Chantilly Shoe (as best as I can remember) for many years. But, I have not sensed any significant change and/or decline in the Show post Marco. Actually, I feel there have been some improvements recently - e.g., a few more vintage dealers, a TPG accepting subs, and more auction houses present (REA, LOTG, Sterling, etc.). Why do you feel as you do - are you speaking from a dealer's perspective?
Val

Rich Klein · #4 07-10-2016, 05:43 AM

12. Dealers: Promoters are in the business of selling tables and are likely not going to be too picky about what a dealer is bringing. I have seen jewelry, insurance, covered gutter services (with a working water display) dealers at card shows over the years. My preference is more memorabilia than card dealers and more vintage than new but variety is a good thing.

I have had a couple of vendors tell me they would be bringing jewelry and I always advise this is the wrong crowd for that. But as noted, one of my jobs in promoting is to sell tables and if not full, then their wares are fine.

As a side note, my sister in law does sell jewelry on the side and if she wants a table, she is getting one, no questions asked

Rich

Aquarian Sports Cards · #5 07-10-2016, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

12. Dealers: Promoters are in the business of selling tables and are likely not going to be too picky about what a dealer is bringing. I have seen jewelry, insurance, covered gutter services (with a working water display) dealers at card shows over the years. My preference is more memorabilia than card dealers and more vintage than new but variety is a good thing.

I have had a couple of vendors tell me they would be bringing jewelry and I always advise this is the wrong crowd for that. But as noted, one of my jobs in promoting is to sell tables and if not full, then their wares are fine.

As a side note, my sister in law does sell jewelry on the side and if she wants a table, she is getting one, no questions asked

Rich

While I can appreciate all that, that kind of thing is why I took this leap into promoting. I firmly believe that helping people, giving them what they want is the way to eventually succeed. Not necessarily grabbing every available dollar.

If I take the trouble as a consumer to go to a card show and there are things like gutter helmet dealers I'm not going to be happy. I will be less likely to attend the show in the future. I would probably feel similarly as a dealer if I was next to gutter-guy. So in the interest of picking up one short-term buck in table rent I may be throwing away more money in future.

This isn't Pollyanna-ish "I want to help people." It's good business. I get into this argument a lot with respect to lots of companies I have dealt with both in and out of the sports collectible arena.

If a company obviously values my time and the revenue I represent they are more likely to continue receiving it, and capture more and more of it. If a company merely views me as a dollar sign in the moment and is willing to do anything to get that dollar right now, that can leave a bad taste in my mouth.

It's why our booth rates are so low this first time out. It's why we have pledged to grandfather all dealers from this first show at the first time rate in perpetuity if they continue to do the show. I want to build relationships with my dealers and my show attendees, so that they look forward to doing business with me as opposed to it being a necessary evil!

Jewish-collector · #6 07-10-2016, 08:50 AM

I agree with Val. The Chantilly show hasn't changed much since Marco used to run it. It is a fantastic show !!!

Years ago, there was a dealer in New York State that used to have a show that dealers could only sell pre-1975 cards and/or memorabilia. I'm not sure how that show did, but that was a unique concept.

Rich Klein · #7 07-10-2016, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

I agree with Val. The Chantilly show hasn't changed much since Marco used to run it. It is a fantastic show !!!

Years ago, there was a dealer in New York State that used to have a show that dealers could only sell pre-1975 cards and/or memorabilia. I'm not sure how that show did, but that was a unique concept.

Originally that was Ed Keetz, and IIRC -- you could kind of sell more modern cards BUT you could not display any post-1980 cards in your showcase or unopened or memorabilia.

Rich

Huck · #8 07-10-2016, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Dean,
What I am sensing from item 1. of your post is that the Chantilly Show (CSA) is no longer a joy to attend because it has not been well run since Marco Rol's departure. I can only speak as a collector who has not missed a Chantilly Shoe (as best as I can remember) for many years. But, I have not sensed any significant change and/or decline in the Show post Marco. Actually, I feel there have been some improvements recently - e.g., a few more vintage dealers, a TPG accepting subs, and more auction houses present (REA, LOTG, Sterling, etc.). Why do you feel as you do - are you speaking from a dealer's perspective?
Val

Val,

That was not my intention but I can see how one could glean that from my post. CSA is still the likely #1 promoter on the East coast, definitely #1 in the DMV. The new crew seems to lean far, far, far more toward football (which I don't collect) than baseball. Marco did a much better job of getting at least the current hof class in for a signing. I get the business model of football is king, but this coming show is the first in the last three shows with a decent baseball guest list. I am not asking for the world, I sent CSA an e-mail just asking to throw we baseball guys a bone with some meat on it every now and then. I am reasonable man. When I attend, the show is still enjoyable. The last show was the first show I have missed in over a decade! I also wish that CSA would adjust one show date that would allow current players and those who work for MLB as potential guests. The current March, July, October dates just doesn't work for those who work in baseball.

Stetson_1883 · #9 07-10-2016, 08:00 PM

A good show?

Whatever this weekend's Dania show was NOT.

Mdmtx · #10 07-10-2016, 08:28 PM

One of my pet peeves have always been the dealers packing up early. I understand there can be a few that have schedule conflict, but mass amounts bailing early is poor form in my opinion. Each dealer should have to get permission for early departure or risk not being sold a table next event. I believe it shows a huge lack of professionalism and it bothered me when I used to setup at shows because I felt it limited sales and it bothers me as a collector when I have made the commitment to be there during advertised hours, but it isn't what was advertised.

Mark

Rich Klein · #11 07-10-2016, 08:42 PM

Mark:

To be fair to those dealers packing up early, sometimes they have to drive long distances to get back home. I know Mike Mowrey from Arkansas likes to pack up a bit early as he has a 5 plus hour drive back to his home.

And if the show has been slow or there is a reason to get out of a show, then they do need to leave to get home. Always a case by case basis.

Gloria Rothstein was real good about ensuring dealers stayed to the very end (or almost the very end) unless you spoke to her beforehand. But even Gloria would let you leave early if a show did not live up to expectations. Gloria tried some other locations to expand her show and one show went so badly she walked around at 1 PM on Sunday and told the dealers they were free to leave.

Dallas is a truly strange market in that most of the shows continue PAST the scheduled closing time as the dealers do most of their business after the show than before the show. So I bet in Dallas, if you come in as a show is ending you will usually find some vendors still there.

Rich

Aquarian Sports Cards · #12 07-10-2016, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdmtx

one of my pet peeves have always been the dealers packing up early. I understand there can be a few that have schedule conflict, but mass amounts bailing early is poor form in my opinion. Each dealer should have to get permission for early departure or risk not being sold a table next event. I believe it shows a huge lack of professionalism and it bothered me when i used to setup at shows because i felt it limited sales and it bothers me as a collector when i have made the commitment to be there during advertised hours, but it isn't what was advertised.

Mark

amen

ValKehl · #13 07-10-2016, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biohazard

Val,

That was not my intention but I can see how one could glean that from my post. CSA is still the likely #1 promoter on the East coast, definitely #1 in the DMV. The new crew seems to lean far, far, far more toward football (which I don't collect) than baseball. Marco did a much better job of getting at least the current hof class in for a signing. I get the business model of football is king, but this coming show is the first in the last three shows with a decent baseball guest list. I am not asking for the world, I sent CSA an e-mail just asking to throw we baseball guys a bone with some meat on it every now and then. I am reasonable man. When I attend, the show is still enjoyable. The last show was the first show I have missed in over a decade! I also wish that CSA would adjust one show date that would allow current players and those who work for MLB as potential guests. The current March, July, October dates just doesn't work for those who work in baseball.

Dean, thanks for your explanation. My collecting focus is pre-War baseball, and I have no interest in autographs, hence I pay no attention to the guest list. And, I always attend on Friday when, as you know, there are no signings taking place. You make a good point re scheduling one show each year outside the baseball season to enable current players, coaches, etc. to be guest signers.
Val

Huck · #14 07-12-2016, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Dean, thanks for your explanation. My collecting focus is pre-War baseball, and I have no interest in autographs, hence I pay no attention to the guest list. And, I always attend on Friday when, as you know, there are no signings taking place. You make a good point re scheduling one show each year outside the baseball season to enable current players, coaches, etc. to be guest signers.
Val

Val,

When the card companies went completely bonkers during the late 80's and 90's my focus shifted to the autograph/memorabilia side of the hobby. Now, that autograph prices are starting to get ridiculous, my focus has shifted to vintage cards. I don't know if the crowds of people would show up if CSA was just a card show.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #15 07-12-2016, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biohazard

Val,

When the card companies went completely bonkers during the late 80's and 90's my focus shifted to the autograph/memorabilia side of the hobby. Now, that autograph prices are starting to get ridiculous, my focus has shifted to vintage cards. I don't know if the crowds of people would show up if CSA was just a card show.

This sentiment always bugged me. Like the card companies were printing cards that nobody wanted in order to depress the market later. The boom hit, everyone though that cards were an investment for the future. Put away a case for $100 and in 30 years voila you're rich. Think about what that meant in 1986. They were looking at a 1956 Case (Or Box, or pack, or even card) and thinking: "wow If I buy now in thirty years that could be me." So EVERYONE did it. Even complete non-card people bought cases and squirreled them away. the Card companies didn't go crazy they met the crazy demand, and what red blooded American company that has very little stake in the after market wouldn't do the same???

basesareempty · #16 07-11-2016, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biohazard

Val,

That was not my intention but I can see how one could glean that from my post. CSA is still the likely #1 promoter on the East coast, definitely #1 in the DMV. The new crew seems to lean far, far, far more toward football (which I don't collect) than baseball. Marco did a much better job of getting at least the current hof class in for a signing. I get the business model of football is king, but this coming show is the first in the last three shows with a decent baseball guest list. I am not asking for the world, I sent CSA an e-mail just asking to throw we baseball guys a bone with some meat on it every now and then. I am reasonable man. When I attend, the show is still enjoyable. The last show was the first show I have missed in over a decade! I also wish that CSA would adjust one show date that would allow current players and those who work for MLB as potential guests. The current March, July, October dates just doesn't work for those who work in baseball.

I was told that CSA made Ken Griffey Jr a sizeable 6 figure offer to come to the show next week and he turned them down.

Rich Klein · #17 07-11-2016, 11:15 AM

I can tell you stories about what players want to appear and many of them make no economic sense for the promoter

Rich

Aquarian Sports Cards · #18 07-11-2016, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

I can tell you stories about what players want to appear and many of them make no economic sense for the promoter

Rich

LOL this is SO true. looks like we're going to sew up a 7x All-star and career .300 hitter with a LONG illustrious career for about half what a 2x All-star who had an 8 year career and was out of the league by 31 years old wanted. The numbers are all over the map.

Huck · #19 07-12-2016, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

I can tell you stories about what players want to appear and many of them make no economic sense for the promoter

Rich

Do you think that Sandy Koufax will ever do another public signing? What is the story with Bobby Cox? After induction, he did a show or two and then *poof* he disappeared.

Huck · #20 07-12-2016, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basesareempty

I was told that CSA made Ken Griffey Jr a sizeable 6 figure offer to come to the show next week and he turned them down.

Perhaps, Griffey invested his money well and doesn't need/like to do shows. On one side I am glad to hear that another athlete who made millions is not broke. On the other hand, I wish he would make at least one pass around the autograph circuit.

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