Will anyone be giving a blow-by-blow account from the National this year?

[irv]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

PSA had a huge line for submissions, SGC was looking for something to do.

Hmmm the only guy I know at SGC was at someone else's booth when I walked by. I called his name just to let him know I was there and he gave me the "just a minute" finger (I double checked because I often get the other finger) and that was fine, I didn't expect him to stop what he was doing to come talk to me. So I waited patiently. He finished talking to the guy and then turned his back on me and walked away. This is a guy who has been courting my business for several months now, trying to convince me to switch my grading from PSA to SGC. Guess not.

If I was there with my cards looking to get them graded I wouldn't have hesitated getting SGC to grade them.

Of course, not knowing the situation fully or the time frame, do you think it is possible he simply forgot about you as I am sure he, like everyone else has a ton on their minds?

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

I have a friend who is at the National AC with a roommate and so far the roommate bought a 1953 Topps set for $4500 and about $2000 in singles from various years.

My friend has spent $5500 on cards (mostly top rookies) and still has around $2500 left to spend.

These are just 2 folks walking the floor who admittedly are not afraid to spend some cash but can you imagine how much money is changing hands down there?!



Peace, Mike

WOW!

I can only imagine the money that is changing hands around there!

I am sure Brinks trucks are making frequent visits?

Sucks to hear a signed Mickey Mantle ball was swiped.

[vthobby]

A funny side note about my friend who was carrying $8000 cash on him when he entered the show on Wednesday. I was on the phone with him while he was walking the 5 blocks from his hotel to the Show and I overheard a panhandler ask my friend for some change........my friend confidently said "Sorry, I have no change on me!" ! Technically he told me he was telling the truth as he had no change! Just $8000 in cash bills!!!!

He is also a burly guy and not a pushover but he even admitted to taking an Uber back to his hotel each night as the street seems to change in the dark in AC!

Peace, Mike

[irv]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

A funny side not about my friend who was carrying $8000 cash on him when he entered the show on Wednesday. I was on the phone with him while he was walking the 5 blocks from his hotel to the Show and I overheard a panhandler ask my friend for some change........my friend confidently said "Sorry, I have no change on me!" ! Technically he told me he was telling the truth as he had no change! Just $8000 in cash bills!!!!

He is also a burly guy and not a pushover but he even admitted to taking an Uber back to his hotel each night as the street seems to change in the dark in AC!

Peace, Mike

LOL

Don't blame him one bit!

[uniship]

outstanding write-up Kevin - thank you!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by irv

Of course, not knowing the situation fully or the time frame, do you think it is possible he simply forgot about you as I am sure he, like everyone else has a ton on their minds?

Of course anything is possible but we're talking less than two minutes from the time he acknowledged me to the time he walked away.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Of course anything is possible but we're talking less than two minutes from the time he acknowledged me to the time he walked away.

That would tick me off royally. Especially if the guy was begging for your business just months earlier. And to treat you like you were nobody.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Of course anything is possible but we're talking less than two minutes from the time he acknowledged me to the time he walked away.

That does seem odd, but I bet whatever it was he was talking about, distracted him enough to forget about you? (Just a guess of course and not taking sides)

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

SGC did a great job for me. Only very minor complaint is the very nice guy helping me didn't know much about grading. But his job was to take submissions.

PSA line was nuts today ten minutes after the gates opened.

Bought nothing after 6 hours on Thursday and today bought an expensive card 5 minutes in the room.

Really have to wonder about the guy with half a table of Trump paraphernalia. I am not violating Leon's rule in that I'd make the same exact comment if it as Clinton stuff. Who would want to see political stuff when they are here to buy cards. I guess some people are just incapable of turning it off.

Al at LOTG had to be the busiest guy in the room. I stopped by a dozen times to say hello and every single time he was reviewing a consignment. Once was being interviewed.

White House sub shop is a ten minute walk. A nice walk. I pity people who are the dreck in the hall. The Tun Tavern right across from the center is a nice place. Was buzzing at lunch today. When you need to step out and get a beer it's a stones throw.

Was really amazed about all the youngsters. Roving 10 and 15 year olds. Was really cool to see. Collecting is not dead!

That is great to hear!

[baker85]

going tomorrow for my first time, I have a want list of T206 Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson and Cy Young. Would like to pick one of those 3 up in a 3 or a nice looking 2.

To be honest, im quite nervous about the national's markup. But....I have never been so maybe it's not that bad?

[Snapolit1]

Once you establish yourself as a knowledgeable collector and not some jammoke who just stumbled in from the casino I think most sellers are willing to be reasonable. Of course there can always be good faith difference in opinion as to what something is worth. I would chat a bit and establish you know what you are doing before throwing out a number.

[Tennis13]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Once you establish yourself as a knowledgeable collector and not some jammoke who just stumbled in from the casino I think most sellers are willing to be reasonable. Of course there can always be good faith difference in opinion as to what something is worth. I would chat a bit and establish you know what you are doing before throwing out a number.

So I am somewhere between a jammoke (I think, I'm not sure what that is but it doesn't sound complimentary) and a knowledgeable collector. I know there is a ton of talk about pricing at the National, and here's sort of my view:

1) The National is the only show where I can confidently walk in knowing that I can line up 5 to 10 cards that I want, look at them side-by-side, and understand exactly what I'm buying and how it stacks up versus the other cards. I bought my Gehrigs this year and last year, and both times I hemmed and hawed, and went back and forth on what card I wanted, and could have easily bought any of 4 or 5 cards, but I settled on a LOWER GRADED card because I did not like the higher graded alternatives as much as I thought I should. It had nothing to do with price, but it had to do with what I could see and how the row of cards stacked up against each other. I won't get that at many other shows, I don't think.

2) Because it's the National, these guys are paying premium $$$ for tables, and so in a seller's market, that cost is transferred to the buyer. That's just basic economics in what is clearly right now a price inelastic market.

3) I don't go to the National to compete on pricing. I go for the experience, the ability to learn and to see what I estimate is 75% to 80% of total US inventory for sale at this stage in life. I get good data points on how prices are moving, what's available and not in broad strokes, and a way to sort of narrow down my focus. In short, it's a very complete data point in what is typically a very fragmented, opaque marketplace. If I ever go, and guys are competing on pricing aggressively, that will be very instructive to me as well for how I could purchase cards over the next 12 to 18 months.

Using all of that information, I think you can find pockets and areas that are soft, or not extremely elevated, in order to get what you need. I paid a lot more than I wanted for my Gehrig last year (and I didn't bargain on mine this year) but I walked the entire floor and didn't find another one in the ENTIRE NATIONAL. That pressed me into action; I wouldn't have had that experience without the National.

Is it worth $22 and $10 for parking and maybe $25 in gas? For me, without a doubt. I look forward to it every single year.

[kailes2872]

Originally Posted by baker85

going tomorrow for my first time, I have a want list of T206 Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson and Cy Young. Would like to pick one of those 3 up in a 3 or a nice looking 2.

To be honest, im quite nervous about the national's markup. But....I have never been so maybe it's not that bad?

There is a table on the far left (as you are heading to the back that has multiples of all of those. Can't remember how they were priced. The same table had the PSA 5 mantle for 115k - so use that as a relative price index.

[baker85]

the mantle does not mean anything to me. I do not track mantle stuff at all because it's just not worth it.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

He's been very persistent at some shows I've been doing, making all sorts of great offers etc... and I've enjoyed talking with him, but I hadn't submitted anything yet. One can always misinterpret, but it really felt like I was getting the brush-off, like I hadn't been worth his time. Contrast that with the treatment I got with Robert Edwards and PWCC it came off even worse. I mean Larry Dean was busy as hell while I was there, but he still took a few seconds to chat with me and meet my friend.

[Snapolit1]

SGC did a great job for me. Only very minor complaint is the very nice guy helping me didn't know much about grading. But his job was to take submissions.

PSA line was nuts today ten minutes after the gates opened.

Bought nothing after 6 hours on Thursday and today bought an expensive card 5 minutes in the room.

Really have to wonder about the guy with half a table of Trump paraphernalia. I am not violating Leon's rule in that I'd make the same exact comment if it as Clinton stuff. Who would want to see political stuff when they are here to buy cards. I guess some people are just incapable of turning it off.

Al at LOTG had to be the busiest guy in the room. I stopped by a dozen times to say hello and every single time he was reviewing a consignment. Once was being interviewed.

White House sub shop is a ten minute walk. A nice walk. I pity people who are the dreck in the hall. The Tun Tavern right across from the center is a nice place. Was buzzing at lunch today. When you need to step out and get a beer it's a stones throw.

Was really amazed about all the youngsters. Roving 10 and 15 year olds. Was really cool to see. Collecting is not dead!

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

SGC did a great job for me. Only very minor complaint is the very nice guy helping me didn't know much about grading. But his job was to take submissions.

PSA line was nuts today ten minutes after the gates opened.

Bought nothing after 6 hours on Thursday and today bought an expensive card 5 minutes in the room.

Really have to wonder about the guy with half a table of Trump paraphernalia. I am not violating Leon's rule in that I'd make the same exact comment if it as Clinton stuff. Who would want to see political stuff when they are here to buy cards. I guess some people are just incapable of turning it off.

Al at LOTG had to be the busiest guy in the room. I stopped by a dozen times to say hello and every single time he was reviewing a consignment. Once was being interviewed.

White House sub shop is a ten minute walk. A nice walk. I pity people who are the dreck in the hall. The Tun Tavern right across from the center is a nice place. Was buzzing at lunch today. When you need to step out and get a beer it's a stones throw.

Was really amazed about all the youngsters. Roving 10 and 15 year olds. Was really cool to see. Collecting is not dead!

What did you buy, if you don't mind?

[Vintagecatcher]

Just returned from 2016 Atlantic City National.

I drove down from Maine. Took a relaxing antiquing trip across New Hampshire to Vermont starting early on Wednesday. Was excited about how relaxing a trip it was taking this route. Unfortunately the 2nd half of the trip was a nightmare. New Jersey has the worst road signs in the country, and the traffic was bad including seeing the wreck of a smoldering 18 wheeler just prior to leaving NJ headed for Interstate 87 North on my trip home on Thursday afternoon. Lucky for me, I was headed North and the wreck was Southbound.

I reached the Atlantic City Convention Center a few hours before the opening on Thursday, and was excited about what surprises might lie ahead.

Here's my impression of the show.

I have been to Nationals in Cleveland, Atlanta, the original Atlantic City show, and Baltimore, and this show had a lot of open area at both the ends. Found the layout of dealers to be very fragmented with larger displays in the middle that broke up the flow of going row to row.

No doubt I was agitated from a crappy drive through New Jersey, but I viewed the entire show in only about 2 1/2 hours. Keep in mind, I had no interest in any autographs, new products, grading services, card breaks, auction houses...strictly an interest in 1905-1920 cards and memorabilia.

Of all the Nationals I have been to, I have never seen such a small amount of memorabilia. I also never recall seeing so many tables not ready to receive customers at the 10 opening at previous Nationals. I also noticed that prices were much higher compared to other Nationals I had been to in years past.

On a positive note, however, the show did have some nice T202s, T204s, T205s, T206s, T207s and T210s. One dealer had a display case full of nice 1909 Obaks. Don Hontz of Portand, Maine had a really nice selection of 1914 Cracker Jacks, 1915 Crack Jacks, and T205s at his table.

There also seemed to be a decent selection of nice postcards such as: Rose Co., Novelty Cutlery, Sepia, Ullmans, Sporting News etc.

Lucky for me, I did see one rare item that I was interested in acquiring in one of the tables at the far end opposite from the card break end.

As luck would have it, I was able to strike a trade deal with Tim N. from the board, and acquired this 1913 Ira Thomas cravats. That purchase was the lone saving grace from a disappointing show.


Patrick

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Bought nothing after 6 hours on Thursday and today bought an expensive card 5 minutes in the room.

I did almost the exact same thing. Wed I went searching for any e92 Nadjas I could find but came up completely empty. Thursday I tried to just find something different/unique but nothing really stood out. I did meet and complete a trade with ValKehl that netted me a e92 Nadja Schaeffer. This morning I ended up picking up a great looking t3 Johnson for a very reasonable price.

Overall I thought the show was pretty good and everyone who was complaining about the location missed out. I was able to Meet a ton of folks from the board (too many to name) while hanging out at Al's booth and just as many while roaming the floor. I think this was probably the highlight of the show for me. Below are a few of my other thoughts.

1) Dealers seemed to be doing well. Observed several deals being completed for over $1k. None of the dealers I spoke to were complaining about the amount of business they were getting.

2) Tons of 52 Topps Mantles available. I would say at least 30-40 were qavailable with several dealers having multiples in different grades available. Prices were all over the place, but I think the cheapest I saw priced was $10k. I did hear multiple discussions for the 51 bowman from attendees either looking to buy or sell.

3) Lots of T206s available including several dealers with rare backs. I know I saw red Hindu, Drum, multiple Uzits, etc. One dealer had a number of different oddities and another had cases filled with Cobbs, Youngs, Mathewsons, etc. The same dealer also had quantities of Goudey Ruth's, Gehrigs, etc. In general, caramels seemed to be in short supply.

4) AC - I thought the convention center was good enough. but about 1/4 of the convention center was reserved for the case break area. Every time I went pasta this area it seemed to be empty. This kind of made me wonder if the case break was smaller, would that open up the possiblity of different locations being considered for the future. At the same time, I spoke with several people that expressed confusion over the whole case break ideas.

Walking the streets seemed safe enough in the morning. Granted, I did not walk back in the evening. I could see how the streets outside the convention centers/outlet area could be less than friendly when the sun goes down.

That's all I can think of at the moment.
DJ