Will anyone be giving a blow-by-blow account from the National this year?

[irv]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Bob and Leon, et al

Back in 1982, the Rose rookie counterfeit was pretty darn good. And, if it wasn't for the stupidity of the counterfeiter trying to dump a large number of them
at one BB card show in California, these cards would not have been detected as soon as they were.


Hey guys,

Which one of these Rose rookie cards is a fake ?






TED Z
.

All the way back in 82? I had no idea this has been going on for this long?
What was a Rose card worth back then? I can't see it being worth the effort but obviously I am wrong.

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Im thinking the one on the right is the fake. I can't imagine a fake having a fisheye.

I agree with that, and if that is the only clue, that counterfeit is really good, especially if it's a 1982 copy?

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by irv

All the way back in 82? I had no idea this has been going on for this long?
What was a Rose card worth back then? I can't see it being worth the effort but obviously I am wrong.



I agree with that, and if that is the only clue, that counterfeit is really good, especially if it's a 1982 copy?

I don't remember the value in 1982, but I know that in 1984, the Rose RC was a $400+ card.

Steve

[tedzan]

In the Spring of 1982, the 1963 TOPPS Rose rookie was real "hot". It was selling for about $150.

At the 1982 National in St Louis, I acquired 8 of them (Ex to Ex/Mt). Then sold all 8 of them at the Willow Grove Show for $250 apiece.

By the Summer of 1983, these cards were selling in the $300 - $400 range (for Ex/Mt to near Mint).


TED Z
.

[GasHouseGang]

I went to the St. Louis National in 1982. But I can't remember if it was at that show, or later that they had figured out some of the Rose rookies being sold were fake. I remember it was widely reported later in SCD and you could buy one of the bogus cards with the word FAKE stamped on the back. The fake had become "famous" enough that collectors wanted it.

[FourStrikes]

at the 1991 (?) Anaheim, CA NSSC I believe promoter / co-promoter Jack Petruzzelli (R.I.P.) was one of the first to call B.S. er... pull the metaphorical trigger on the Rose rookie card scam...

from my personal recollection, Jack was a good dude, as well as an Anaheim or Fullerton PD / criminal investigator ???

thanks, JP!.

DS

[Rich Klein]

Jack did the work on discovering and cleaning up the mess from the fake Rose RC's but it was in the 1980's. I think circa 1982 or 3

Rich

[Griffins]

Originally Posted by irv

All the way back in 82? I had no idea this has been going on for this long?
What was a Rose card worth back then? I can't see it being worth the effort but obviously I am wrong.



I agree with that, and if that is the only clue, that counterfeit is really good, especially if it's a 1982 copy?

At the Anaheim show in '75 (precursor to the National) there was a huge scandal with a group of '59 Fleer #68's that came in that were fake. They looked pretty good and got by many but Irv Lerner wasn't fooled and blew the whistle. The promoters told the seller he wasn't allowed to sell them and I think he ended up walking out. Ended up making front page in SCD. I remember at the time the old time dealers thought that the hobby had too much money in it when a card was faked, and lamented how bad things were getting.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Griffins

At the Anaheim show in '75 (precursor to the National) there was a huge scandal with a group of '59 Fleer #68's that came in that were fake. They looked pretty good and got by many but Irv Lerner wasn't fooled and blew the whistle. The promoters told the seller he wasn't allowed to sell them and I think he ended up walking out. Ended up making front page in SCD. I remember at the time the old time dealers thought that the hobby had too much money in it when a card was faked, and lamented how bad things were getting.

Thanks for sharing that information.

I really didn't think, based on the tech that was available back then, that people would be making counterfeit cards in order to make money.

I was surprised, however, to hear what some of the Rose RC's were worth even way back then, so I can understand it, now, why it goes way back like it does.

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by irv

Thanks for sharing that information.

I really didn't think, based on the tech that was available back then, that people would be making counterfeit cards in order to make money.

I was surprised, however, to hear what some of the Rose RC's were worth even way back then, so I can understand it, now, why it goes way back like it does.

The counterfeiting of cards was beginning to become more of a problem in the 1980s. Another big card that was counterfeited was the 1984 Donruss Don Mattingly. At it's peak, I believe it was around $150 or so.

In fact, that is why it was such big news when Upper Deck came out in 1989 with the hologram on the backs of their cards, as a deterrent to counterfeiting.

Steve

[irv]

Originally Posted by Steve D

The counterfeiting of cards was beginning to become more of a problem in the 1980s. Another big card that was counterfeited was the 1984 Donruss Don Mattingly. At it's peak, I believe it was around $150 or so.

In fact, that is why it was such big news when Upper Deck came out in 1989 with the hologram on the backs of their cards, as a deterrent to counterfeiting.

Steve

Great information.

Although I wasn't collecting anywhere near then like I am now, I always thought the Hologram was just to "pretty" up the card some.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Steve D

The counterfeiting of cards was beginning to become more of a problem in the 1980s. Another big card that was counterfeited was the 1984 Donruss Don Mattingly. At it's peak, I believe it was around $150 or so.

In fact, that is why it was such big news when Upper Deck came out in 1989 with the hologram on the backs of their cards, as a deterrent to counterfeiting.

Steve

I thought UD used the hologram so only they could counterfeit their cards.