Thoughts on Kaepernick & the national anthem

[Exhibitman]

He is engaging in core political speech 100% protected by the First Amendment and anyone who wants to punish him for it needs to go back to school and understand the freedoms that the song represents. He isn't disrespecting the people who defend this country. He is engaging in the activity they fight to protect. Our most precious freedom is the right to be an American Idiot. Voltaire said it best: I Disapprove of What You Say, But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It

[Peter_Spaeth]

He cares about social issues and seems willing to take a stand which is a hell of a lot more than can be said about most self-centered pampered athletes (and entertainers) just living in the four corners of their personal ego trips.

[steve B]

He's got a right to protest, and that's something we should see as important. While I don't totally agree with what he's saying, there's always room to improve things.

Part of me thinks it's a better thing than blocking highways or burning down the corner store, part of me thinks it's a bit of grandstanding empty gesture. If he donates a big chunk of money to his cause as he's said he will I think that might be more effective.

Steve B

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by steve B

He's got a right to protest, and that's something we should see as important. While I don't totally agree with what he's saying, there's always room to improve things.

Part of me thinks it's a better thing than blocking highways or burning down the corner store, part of me thinks it's a bit of grandstanding empty gesture. If he donates a big chunk of money to his cause as he's said he will I think that might be more effective.

Steve B

He is using the platform available to him, and knows that something that makes people uncomfortable is going to capture attention. If he just went on Twitter and said I don't like what's happening in America it would have very little impact. I don't think it's an empty gesture, he certainly knows the possible consequences.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

He is engaging in core political speech 100% protected by the First Amendment and anyone who wants to punish him for it needs to go back to school and understand the freedoms that the song represents. He isn't disrespecting the people who defend this country. He is engaging in the activity they fight to protect. Our most precious freedom is the right to be an American Idiot. Voltaire said it best: I Disapprove of What You Say, But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It

welll.......... that's not really true.

The constitution protects you from the tyranny of the govt in regards to speech. It does NOT protect you from consequences of your choices however.

The owner of the team has the right to decide that Kaepernick's choices are detrimental to the team and cut him accordingly. This would not be a free speech violation, merely a business decision.


my response to the poll:


I both think that if I were owner I'd cut him AND that he has the right to protest any way he sees fit. We all have the right to our opinion and to express it anyway we like as long as we don't harm others, but, that being said, we are all bound to face the consequences of the choices we make and are open to any and all criticism of our choices. Freedom of speech is not a free pass to avoid criticism or consequences, it is there to keep the govt from chucking us in jail because we think it sucks.

[FourStrikes]

meh...this has been done before (Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf of the NBA, etc.) as an example, so while he's not necessarily a trailblazing sports/entertainment figure, it is what it is and makes interesting point/counterpoint discussion for those that want to engage in such things.

although I may have my own personal opinions, I'm not going to get further involved w/my commentary, as Adam's well-stated post on the (constitutionally-protected) aspects of this "protest" are dead-on accurate.

DS

[Topps206]

It's his right to do it. While he's not free of consequences, he is, however, free to sit during the anthem. Even the NFL said that they encourage players to stand but that they don't require them.

Even if you disagree that he protested, it's tough to say he doesn't have the right to do so.

You can't please everyone and often important stances aren't the popular ones.

[bbcard1]

Has a right to say what he believes. Probably even a responsibility to do so. But it would have been a lot braver had he done it when he was athletically relevant.

[EvilKing00]

every idiot has the right to say 1 + 1 =3......but will never make it right.

if that dramma queen wants to improve inner citys he should take his money and go build some schools, daycare, after school programs etc. Disrespecting our country, the country that provides him a job and plenty of money and luxuries for his family, ummm for sitting his fat ass on a bench, is just being a hypocrite.

[ALR-bishop]

Full name ? It is great to have an opinion but put your name out there

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Full name ? It is great to have an opinion but put your name out there

Steven pacchiano

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

my response to the poll:


I both think that if I were owner I'd cut him AND that he has the right to protest any way he sees fit. We all have the right to our opinion and to express it anyway we like as long as we don't harm others, but, that being said, we are all bound to face the consequences of the choices we make and are open to any and all criticism of our choices. Freedom of speech is not a free pass to avoid criticism or consequences, it is there to keep the govt from chucking us in jail because we think it sucks.

^^+1^^ This is my response to the poll also, combination of part of 1 & 2.

[Topps206]

If everybody just fell in line with no problems at all, we wouldn't have change for the better. Just because I love my country doesn't mean I think it's without its flaws.

I oppose the action of burning the American flag, but I support someone's right to do it.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Topps206

If everybody just fell in line with no problems at all, we wouldn't have change for the better. Just because I love my country doesn't mean I think it's without its flaws.

I oppose the action of burning the American flag, but I support someone's right to do it.

sure, it's legal for them to do it, but we are free to think they are scumbags for doing it (and their employer is free to fire them if they think their employee's actions are detrimental to their business)

I think Kaepernick made a mistake with the timing of his actions. If he had been a top notch player, owning the starting QB job and leading his team to the playoffs he would have a lot more leeway. BUT, when you have played poorly, complained about losing the starting job and then do something like this... well let's say it looks kinda like an attention grab.


Jimmy Johnson years ago was asked why a borderline player got released for falling asleep at a film meeting. He said that when you are on the cut line you need to be the first there, last to leave amd you need to keep your mouth shut and do your job the best you can. When the reporter replied "well, if it was Troy Aikman who fell asleep what would you do?" he said "I'd say , "Troy, wake up""

[Topps206]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

sure, it's legal for them to do it, but we are free to think they are scumbags for doing it (and their employer is free to fire them if they think their employee's actions are detrimental to their business)

I think Kaepernick made a mistake with the timing of his actions. If he had been a top notch player, owning the starting QB job and leading his team to the playoffs he would have a lot more leeway. BUT, when you have played poorly, complained about losing the starting job and then do something like this... well let's say it looks kinda like an attention grab.


Jimmy Johnson years ago was asked why a borderline player got released for falling asleep at a film meeting. He said that when you are on the cut line you need to be the first there, last to leave amd you need to keep your mouth shut and do your job the best you can. When the reporter replied "well, if it was Troy Aikman who fell asleep what would you do?" he said "I'd say , "Troy, wake up""

I'm not sure where I said the 49ers wouldn't be within their right to release him, but you're right about the double standard, though.

To disavow his actions is your right, but not standing for the anthem is also his.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Topps206

I'm not sure where I said the 49ers wouldn't be within their right to release him, but you're right about the double standard, though.

To disavow his actions is your right, but not standing for the anthem is also his.

nobody is arguing with it being his right (unless the NFL chooses to make it required) my beef is how so many people make wrong first amendment arguments in regards to criticism from others or punishment from his employer. (or they seem to think he has a right to his opinion but we don't have the right to think poorly of him because of said opinion, which by the way wouldn't be the case if a white guy said something that was deemed racist)

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by Topps206

If everybody just fell in line with no problems at all, we wouldn't have change for the better. Just because I love my country doesn't mean I think it's without its flaws.

I oppose the action of burning the American flag, but I support someone's right to do it.

Just to touch on the last part of your post here.

It is 100% illegal to burn the flag and any person that supports the right of someone to do so is a tyrant and enemy to the US. Let me catch some f'ing twatwaffle burning a flag and see how quick I make the 5 o'clock news.

Having a right to protest and express an opinion is one thing. If Kaepernick wants to sit by all means let him sit. Doesn't mean I have to support of root for him and his team. Your First Amendment rights that we so freely use are very abused and there is quite a bit that aren't actually your right and should be punished as such.

[ALR-bishop]

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrSb...OIa5U1L_URT6M-

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrSb...XIOzP5ddTmrPk-

[Topps206]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

Just to touch on the last part of your post here.

It is 100% illegal to burn the flag and any person that supports the right of someone to do so is a tyrant and enemy to the US. Let me catch some fucking twatwaffle burning a flag and see how quick I make the 5 o'clock news.

Having a right to protest and express an opinion is one thing. If Kaepernick wants to sit by all means let him sit. Doesn't mean I have to support of root for him and his team. Your First Amendment rights that we so freely use are very abused and there is quite a bit that aren't actually your right and should be punished as such.

Texas vs. Johnson says otherwise.

Also, Kaepernick is getting death threats.

[EvilKing00]

As far as burinng the flag... I feel very strongly that if u burn the flag u should be deported.

Short story... So i have a flag hanging in front of my house, over the years its become ripped and tattered. I replaced it with a new one. But what to do with the old one?

I turned to google. Which said the proper way to dispose of a us flag is to properly fold then burn the flag. Not convinced of google answer i talk to my broinlaw whos a marine. Who confirms this is the proper way.

3 months later i have a new flag hanging on front of my house & a torn flag hanging in my yard. Still cant bring myself to do it.

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

welll.......... that's not really true.

The constitution protects you from the tyranny of the govt in regards to speech. It does NOT protect you from consequences of your choices however.

The owner of the team has the right to decide that Kaepernick's choices are detrimental to the team and cut him accordingly. This would not be a free speech violation, merely a business decision.


my response to the poll:


I both think that if I were owner I'd cut him AND that he has the right to protest any way he sees fit. We all have the right to our opinion and to express it anyway we like as long as we don't harm others, but, that being said, we are all bound to face the consequences of the choices we make and are open to any and all criticism of our choices. Freedom of speech is not a free pass to avoid criticism or consequences, it is there to keep the govt from chucking us in jail because we think it sucks.

Perfectly stated...couldn't agree more