T206 Bill Sweeney Missing Red Ink - Won't Grade?

[mrvster]

missing magentas......I owed at least a dozen or so.....even the Sweeney...

they are extremely tough to differentiate.....

my theory on a lot of them are legit, some are faded.....unfortunately, they have drummed up so much uncertainty, that everyone has become more "skittish" to identify one.....

the verdict is still out on them

[drcy]

Red printing ink is the most prone to fading, but rarely to nothing.

[Leon]

TPG are also more wary, nowadays, of grading cards that have stamped backs (and rightfully so)....Most are good but many have been reprinted/faked.

Originally Posted by mrvster

missing magentas......I owed at least a dozen or so.....even the Sweeney...

they are extremely tough to differentiate.....

my theory on a lot of them are legit, some are faded.....unfortunately, they have drummed up so much uncertainty, that everyone has become more "skittish" to identify one.....

the verdict is still out on them

[steve B]

Missing colors can be difficult to figure out.

Most of the real ones are missing more than one color.
I bought a couple cards from a group that had been framed and hung in a barbershop for about 40 years. Lots of them looked like missing red. The two I got are very hard to tell whether it's fading or the red missing. One has even gloss, another has less where the red was.
SGC did grade a few of them as missing colors, and also stopped soon after the source and fading was discussed here. (Maybe coincidence?)

I've done a bit of checking into if some science equipment could tell, but haven't found much that's definite. The machines are also rather expensive.

Steve B

[TobaccoKing4]

Here are pictures of the card. Some people had asked me to show it so here it is:

[Pat R]

I didn't want to get of topic in the other thread so I'll post my
opinion here.

I don't think any of the Sweeney's are missing red ink all of the ones
that I've seen have evidence of scrapbook removal or light exposure.

Some like yours were a more successful soak but the evidence of a
soak is still there.

I picked up this Dubuc out of curiosity because it was cheap, it had
a pretty clean back and the red was faded. As soon as I had it in hand
I could tell it had been soaked.

Dubuc.jpgDubuc Back.jpg
Dubuc Side Veiw 2.jpg Dubuc Side Veiw.jpg

If you're scanning a card and it doesn't lay flat on the scanner bed you
can bet it has been soaked at some point even some of the worst beaters
will lay flat if they haven't been soaked.


It's not just the Sweeney's. Here are some of the "missing ink" T206's
on ebay, all of the ones missing red in the lettering have scrapbook or light exposure evidence.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odk...g+ink&_sacat=0

[steve B]

The Dessau cards are probably actually missing red. But not by accident. There's a group of 350's that I've only very marginally studied where there's a deliberate change to the bright red. Dygert is the most obvious, he either looks like he's got lipstick or he doesn't.

These are a mixed group, and I need to do better scans. The top two are faded, from a big group that was on Ebay that had 40 years or so of light exposure.
The Huggins is one from another group that looks really washed out, I haven't seen many, and they're certainly odd.
The Beck is missing pink, and gray.

A second missing color is somewhat typical for cards that are missing a color and don't show evidence of soaking or being pinned up somewhere.

That being said, I actually tried to fade or create an offset transfer from a soaked card a few years ago, and lets just say that plain water plus a lot of pressure - clamped between wood blocks in a vise for a week or so did neither.

[steve B]

LOL, forgot the picture....

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by steve B

The Dessau cards are probably actually missing red. But not by accident. There's a group of 350's that I've only very marginally studied where there's a deliberate change to the bright red. Dygert is the most obvious, he either looks like he's got lipstick or he doesn't.

These are a mixed group, and I need to do better scans. The top two are faded, from a big group that was on Ebay that had 40 years or so of light exposure.
The Huggins is one from another group that looks really washed out, I haven't seen many, and they're certainly odd.
The Beck is missing pink, and gray.

A second missing color is somewhat typical for cards that are missing a color and don't show evidence of soaking or being pinned up somewhere.

That being said, I actually tried to fade or create an offset transfer from a soaked card a few years ago, and lets just say that plain water plus a lot of pressure - clamped between wood blocks in a vise for a week or so did neither.

My post was in reference to cards that are similar to the Sweeney. I should have used better wording in my post.

Here's the back scan of the Sweeney that's not provided by the one seller.
Sweeney missing ink.jpg