Thoughts on Kaepernick & the national anthem

vintagetoppsguy · #1 09-06-2016, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

No, I'm saying the system is geared toward arresting them, as evidenced by the government's own finding. So you asked people to suggest what opportunities African Americans lack that white Americans have. I've demonstrated very clearly that they lack the ability to live their lives without being harassed by a police system that clearly targets them because they are African American. That is a big difference between your life and the life of an African American, isn't it?

And, as also evidenced by the government's own finding, the majority of the violent crimes are committed by blacks. That's not racist, it's a fact. Are facts racist? You said the police system targets them because they're black. Gee, there's a shocker! They're actually targeting the ones committing the majority of the crimes

If you're the police, and crime is a problem in your neighborhood, who are you going to target? The ones that match the description or the ones that don't? Let me word it another way. If street racing is a problem in your neighborhood and it is putting children at risk, should the police be targeting the soccer moms in minivans, or should they look closer at the sports cars?

packs · #2 09-06-2016, 01:53 PM

Wow is all I can say. I already posted the Innocence Project data for a reason. That reason is to demonstrate that who people say committed a crime and who actually committed a crime are often at odds, but there is one thing they have in common: it must have been the black guy.

vintagetoppsguy · #3 09-06-2016, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

I already posted the Innocence Project data for a reason.

And I didn't address at the time it because it's a ridiculous statistic. But I'll play your game. There are nearly 1 million black males in prisons in this country. And you're saying that 212 of them are serving time for a crime they didn't commit?

It's unfortunate yes, but I think a .000212 error rate is probably a lot better than most countries. Do you do your job with a .000212 error rate?

Any more ridiculous stats?

packs · #4 09-06-2016, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

And I didn't address at the time it because it's a ridiculous statistic. But I'll play your game. There are nearly 1 million black males in prisons in this country. And you're saying that 212 of them are serving time for a crime they didn't commit?

It's unfortunate yes, but I think a .000212 error rate is probably a lot better than most countries. Do you do your job with a .000212 error rate?

Any more ridiculous stats?

Do you think the Innocence Project has all the time and resources in the world? Your posts are really borderline now and I'm growing concerned. I have made every effort to show you that the people arrested and the people convicted and the people exonerated are disproportionately African American. That makes all your supposed crime stats moot. In Minnesota, where Philando Castile was shot dead for no reason, 47 percent of all arrests were African Americans. Do you know how much of the population African Americans make up? 7 percent. Are you seriously suggesting 7 percent of the population are in fact committing nearly 50 percent of all crime? Or is it possible that the 7 percent of the population are held to a different standard than the other 93 percent?

vintagetoppsguy · #5 09-06-2016, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

I have made every effort to show you that the people arrested and the people convicted and the people exonerated are disproportionately African American.

And I have made every effort to show you that majority of violent crimes are committed by African Americans. Therefore, given that fact, doesn't it stand to reason that they would be arrested and convicted in disproportionate numbers? How hard is that one to figure out????

Let's just agree to disagree and move on.

packs · #6 09-06-2016, 02:32 PM

You haven't made any effort to do anything but dismiss racism.

tschock · #7 09-06-2016, 02:46 PM

"Are you seriously suggesting 7 percent of the population are in fact committing nearly 50 percent of all crime? Or is it possible that the 7 percent of the population are held to a different standard than the other 93 percent?"

Of course not. It would have to be lower than that, unless there aren't any repeat offenders. Personal actions and attitude over the course of time don't come into play at all, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

You haven't made any effort to do anything but dismiss racism.

And you haven't made any effort to do anything but have all admit it is ONLY due to racism.

bravos4evr · #8 09-06-2016, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

You haven't made any effort to do anything but dismiss racism.

and you are apparently ignorant of black culture in inner cities and poor communities. crime is celebrated, education dismissed as 'for nerds and white people" heroes are Scarface, drug dealers, rappers who celebrate criminal activity and pro athletes. Those who fail to become the latter have grown up in a culture that tells them that to fit in and be part of the group they should embrace crime, selling drugs, stealing...etc Parents are more likely to be separated with no father interaction than any other group, black parents are also the least likely to take a direct interest in their child's education, more likely to overspend on vanity objects over groceries and spend the highest % of income on a vehicle than any other demographic. that's not good.

when you make up under 15% of the population at large but comprise 37% of the prison population, either you think we live in 1970's South Africa, or there is a cultural problem at work in the black community. My friend LP and I were talking last night about this and he said it's sad how the culture of the black community has fallen over the last 20 years to where it is now.

I,personally, think it's what happens when govt tells an entire group of people that they don't have to perform, they will save them a certain number of slots just because of their race. (not to mention the impact of generational welfare. nobody taught these families how to fish, they just kept giving them fish)

but go ahead, call us all racists from your lily white ivory tower because of what some sheltered academic sociologist told you. (hint, it isn't science no matter how hard they try to pretend it is)

SAllen2556 · #9 09-06-2016, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

In Minnesota, where Philando Castile was shot dead for no reason, 47 percent of all arrests were African Americans. Do you know how much of the population African Americans make up? 7 percent. Are you seriously suggesting 7 percent of the population are in fact committing nearly 50 percent of all crime? Or is it possible that the 7 percent of the population are held to a different standard than the other 93 percent?

In the NBA, 77% of all fouls are called on African Americans. Therefore, NBA officials must be racists, right? Oh wait, 77% of the NBA is made up of African Americans. Do poorer people drive crappier cars which in turn get pulled over more often? Most certainly.

And in one quick google search I found stats that disagree with yours. This site has crime stats for Minnesota broken down by race. Go to page 63. https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/bca/bca...Crime-Book.pdf

It lists the crimes by race. Whites outnumber Afr. Americans by more than 2 to 1.

Also, according to the Innocence Project the number 1 reason for wrongful convictions is false identification, not racism! In fact, false identification was the cause in over 75% of the cases.

Betting you don't respond directly to what's stated above. But maybe you're different than others on the far left. Let's see.

packs · #10 09-06-2016, 04:21 PM

Two things for you:

1. I was talking about the area in which Castile was stopped and murdered, not the state as a whole.

2. The issue with identification is simple: it was the black guy, officer. Except, surprise, it wasn't. Or, alternately, it was a black guy, officer. Probably that black guy that you happen to put in front of me, but maybe not.

tschock · #11 09-06-2016, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

2. The issue with identification is simple: it was the black guy, officer. Except, surprise, it wasn't.

So you're saying that of the 212, 159 (75%) were in there because a white person committed the crime instead?

SAllen2556 · #12 09-06-2016, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

Two things for you:

1. I was talking about the area in which Castile was stopped and murdered, not the state as a whole.

2. The issue with identification is simple: it was the black guy, officer. Except, surprise, it wasn't. Or, alternately, it was a black guy, officer. Probably that black guy that you happen to put in front of me, but maybe not.

1. So you admit you're cherry-picking the statistics. The stats for the entire state of Minnesota would be considered much more valid to use if you wanted to generalize anything.

2. Well, even if the witness misidentified the proper black guy, it is very likely the criminal probably was still a black guy. You're certainly not implying that a witness who saw a white guy commit a crime told the police that it was actually a black guy. That's an argument a 12-year old would make.

FourStrikes · #13 09-06-2016, 02:13 PM

since we're at or near triple-digit posts in this thread, I'm thinkin' we're long-overdue for a memorabilia contribution to this discussion.

NOT trying to derail a discussion that's been reasonably amicable, and while I personally value everyone's perspective/opinion, like they say, "opinions are like a$$holes and..." - I've got one (an opinion AND an a$$hole) and I've been one (an a$$hole) more times I care to admit to or even to remember, but...

time to inject some sports (imagery) into the discussion, as NOT everything - or anyone/everyone - is right or wrong at ALL times...in "black and white" terms, as there's always exceptions on both sides.

JMO...enjoy a few vintage images (not mine - swiped from Google images):

DS

View Poll Results: Thoughts on Kaepernick & the national anthem
If I was owner of the team id cut him - he should move out of usa	41	32.28%
Dont like what hes doing but hes got the right to do it	66	51.97%
I like what hes protesting and id do it too	9	7.09%
Dont care at all	11	8.66%
Voters: 127. You may not vote on this poll

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