Thoughts on Kaepernick & the national anthem

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

So what? Thats only about half of the white men that were killed by cops. Where is your outrage there? Keep spouting your leftist loon agenda.

Per Washington Post, unarmed Americans killed by police officers:

Black: 38
White: 32
Hispanic: 18

Since there are roughly five times as many white Americans as black Americans, you would expect around 190 unarmed white deaths for it to be proportional.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Per Washington Post, unarmed Americans killed by police officers:

Black: 38
White: 32
Hispanic: 18

Since there are roughly five times as many white Americans as black Americans, you would expect around 190 unarmed white deaths for it to be proportional.

The Washington Post data I read said 50% of the victims of fatal police shootings were white, 26% were black.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

The Washington Post data I read said 50% of the victims of fatal police shootings were white, 26% were black.

Unarmed

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ice-shootings/

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Unarmed

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ice-shootings/

Lets just cut the crap with all the statistics. My question still remains. Where is the outrage over the white victims of police shootings? And why do white people handle it differently than black people do????????? White people don't form hate groups (and, yes, BLM is a hate group) that advocates the killing of cops.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Lets just cut the crap with all the statistics. My question still remains. Where is the outrage over the white victims of police shootings? And why do white people handle it differently than black people do?????????

You want to know the difference? Police shootings aren't the issue. They are relatively infrequent all things considered. However, they represent the tipping point of a community (whether it be Baltimore, Ferguson, etc.) that has been subject to extreme levels of discrimination by the very people who are hired to protect them.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

You want to know the difference? Police shootings aren't the issue. They are relatively infrequent all things considered. However, they represent the tipping point of a community (whether it be Baltimore, Ferguson, etc.) that has been subject to extreme levels of discrimination by the very people who are hired to protect them.

How are they being discriminated against by the police? You're confusing discrimination with justifiable reason to profile. When a certain group of people are responsible for a majority of the crime, doesn't it make sense that the police are going to scrutinize them more whether you agree that its fair or not?

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

How are they being discriminated against by the police? You're confusing discrimination with justifiable reason to profile. When a certain group of people are responsible for a majority of the crime, doesn't it make sense that the police are going to scrutinize them more whether you agree that its fair or not?

I don't care about what is fair. I care about upholding the constitution. The DOJ published their findings of the Baltimore Police Department (BPD) a few weeks ago, below is the report.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/file/883366/download


"We find reasonable cause to believe that BPD engages in a pattern or practice of discriminatory policing against African Americans. Statistical evidence shows that the Department intrudes disproportionately upon the lives of African Americans at every stage of its enforcement activities."

"Arrests without probable cause: from 2010–2015, supervisors at Baltimore’s Central Booking and local prosecutors rejected over 11,000 charges made by BPD officers because they lacked probable cause or otherwise did not merit prosecution. Our review of incident reports describing warrantless arrests likewise found many examples of officers making unjustified arrests. In addition, officers extend stops without justification to search for evidence that would justify an arrest. These detentions—many of which last more than an hour— constitute unconstitutional arrests."

"In the five and a half years of data we examined, African Americans accounted for 95 percent of the 410 individuals BPD stopped at least 10 times. One African American man in his mid-fifties was stopped 30 times in less than 4 years. Despite these repeated intrusions, none of the 30 stops resulted in a citation or criminal charge."

The report even states that traffic stops of white individuals were more likely to result in a citation/criminal charge.

"In addition, BPD’s disproportionate enforcement against African Americans is suggestive of intentional discrimination because the racial disparities are greatest for enforcement activities that involve higher degrees of officer discretion. In the five years of arrest data we reviewed, African Americans accounted for a larger share of charges for highly discretionary misdemeanor offenses than for other offenses, including: 91 percent of those charged solely with trespassing, 91 percent of charges for failing to obey an officer’s orders, 88 percent of those arrested solely for “impeding” and 84 percent of people charged with disorderly conduct."


There is no freedom loving American who can read this report and believe the Constitution is being protected by the city of Baltimore.

You may believe that police need to resort to extrajudicial killings, arrests without cause and discrimination to uphold the peace, but it doesn't seem to be working. I think affording every American citizen their Constitutional rights might be worth a try - it sounds crazy, but it might just work.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Lets just cut the crap with all the statistics. My question still remains. Where is the outrage over the white victims of police shootings? And why do white people handle it differently than black people do????????? White people don't form hate groups (and, yes, BLM is a hate group) that advocates the killing of cops.

I love how you whine when nobody answers your questions but you continue to ignore questions posed to you.

Also, "justified profiling"? Haha, wow...that pretty much says it all. You're basically saying minorities don't even DESERVE to be treated equitably. I bet you're the kind of guy who thinks he isn't racist cuz he has a black "friend."

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by dgo71

I love how you whine when nobody answers your questions but you continue to ignore questions posed to you.

Also, "justified profiling"? Haha, wow...that pretty much says it all. You're basically saying minorities don't even DESERVE to be treated equitably. I bet you're the kind of guy who thinks he isn't racist cuz he has a black "friend."

Yes, in your leftest loon mind, that's what I'm saying

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Yes, in your leftest loon mind, that's what I'm saying

Insults aside, you should take a few minutes tonight (or tomorrow) and skim through the DOJ report. It's truly sickening what our fellow American citizens are being subjected to. Most people don't care much for our Constitutional rights any more David, but to those of us who are still trying to protect them, it is appalling to see what is going on in Baltimore. I'll repost the report for you:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/file/883366/download

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Yes, in your leftest loon mind, that's what I'm saying

That's exactly what you said though. Maybe you don't understand the words you used or the context you used them in? Blacks commit more crimes so pay more attention to blacks than anyone else based solely on skin color. Profiling is by definition based on stereotype and assumption and not facts, so if in your mind that can ever be justified you're clearly part of the problem.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Per Washington Post, unarmed Americans killed by police officers:

Black: 38
White: 32
Hispanic: 18

Since there are roughly five times as many white Americans as black Americans, you would expect around 190 unarmed white deaths for it to be proportional.

Yes, but the whites actually did what they were told when ordered and didn't resist. Therefore they don't get shot as often. It goes back to respect and parenting.

[barrysloate]

I haven't posted in over a year, but after slogging through this thread I felt compelled to say something. And it was ltclarkes post at #167 that got me to do so. Here's what I take away from reading this thread: Everybody is shouting, and nobody is listening.

I've been saying for awhile now that I think America is very close to a civil war. No, not like the one from the 1860's- we won't see cannon fire or rifles fitted with bayonets- but we are pretty much in an ideological one. I am really afraid that after the election in two months, the country is going to explode. And I admit I have absolutely no idea how it can be prevented.

To me the worst problem in America now is nobody is willing to listen to or even consider an opposing point of view. Nobody is willing to even concede that the other guy might be making a good point because it is considered capitulating. You're a loser if you admit the other guy may be right. And the rhetoric and the venom seems to be getting worse by the day.

Here is something I will leave you with: if the other guy has an opinion that differs from yours, calling him an idiot is not cool. You are not solving the problem, but becoming part of it. I really worry for the future of this country.

And I won't be posting again, so please excuse me if I don't answer a post sent my way. Thanks for listening.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

To me the worst problem in America now is nobody is willing to listen to or even consider an opposing point of view. Nobody is willing to even concede that the other guy might be making a good point because it is considered capitulating. You're a loser if you admit the other guy may be right. And the rhetoric and the venom seems to be getting worse by the day.

Here is something I will leave you with: if the other guy has an opinion that differs from yours, calling him an idiot is not cool. You are not solving the problem, but becoming part of it. I really worry for the future of this country.

Not directed at you Barry, but this probably fits here best. Many who are paying attention believe that is the whole point, to foment that discontent. Taken in historical context, the black shootings by police officers are WAY down from 40 years ago.

http://www.cjcj.org/news/8113

[bbcard1]

I would have been a lot more of an impactful statement had it been made when he was a relevant player.

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

To me the worst problem in America now is nobody is willing to listen to or even consider an opposing point of view. Nobody is willing to even concede that the other guy might be making a good point because it is considered capitulating. You're a loser if you admit the other guy may be right. And the rhetoric and the venom seems to be getting worse by the day.

Here is something I will leave you with: if the other guy has an opinion that differs from yours, calling him an idiot is not cool. You are not solving the problem, but becoming part of it. I really worry for the future of this country.

you're right barry. people tend to watch the news channel that aligns with their viewpoint, they follow and read people online that reinforces their beliefs. if you don't like something or someone you unfollow it, so your worldview intake only strengthen what you believe in and it hardens over time. even tho the world is shrinking with internet and social media lines are being drawn and viewpoints are extremely divisive.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

you're right barry. people tend to watch the news channel that aligns with their viewpoint, they follow and read people online that reinforces their beliefs. if you don't like something or someone you unfollow it, so your worldview intake only strengthen what you believe in and it hardens over time. even tho the world is shrinking with internet and social media lines are being drawn and viewpoints are extremely divisive.

I completely agree with the news pushing their own agenda. It is amazing how many things that are reported in our news about other countries is 100% BS.

[bn2cardz]

I am not going to attempt to argue one point or another, but I thought I would share the thoughts of a coworker of mine. She is a widowed black mother of 4 sons with the youngest just having gone to college. She lives and raised her boys in Ferguson, MO.

She went on rant after rant during the Ferguson riots. But it wasn't an anti-police/pro-riot stance as some would make you believe, it was the exact opposite. Yet her side of the story wasn't the one the news would cover. She would constantly said that if there was any racism in the cops in Ferguson she would have known it. Yet her sons were never pulled over for something that wasn't deserved (one son ran from the cops when he realized he didn't have his ID). She hated that Michael Brown was considered anything but a "thug" stating him and his whole family were trouble in the community.

The stuff she has said would make a white man seem racist if they said it. Her major point, though, was that it is no longer a skin color issue. She believes that it is a social issue. That a black guy that doesn't look like a "thug" and treats people respectful will be treated right. A white guy that acts like a "thug" and disrespects is going to be treated the same as the black guy acting the same way.

I just thought I would share her thoughts since she has a perspective that most on this board don't have.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I am not going to attempt to argue one point or another, but I thought I would share the thoughts of a coworker of mine. She is a widowed black mother of 4 sons with the youngest just having gone to college. She lives and raised her boys in Ferguson, MO.

She went on rant after rant during the Ferguson riots. But it wasn't an anti-police/pro-riot stance as some would make you believe, it was the exact opposite. Yet her side of the story wasn't the one the news would cover. She would constantly said that if there was any racism in the cops in Ferguson she would have known it. Yet her sons were never pulled over for something that wasn't deserved (one son ran from the cops when he realized he didn't have his ID). She hated that Michael Brown was considered anything but a "thug" stating him and his whole family were trouble in the community.

The stuff she has said would make a white man seem racist if they said it. Her major point, though, was that it is no longer a skin color issue. She believes that it is a social issue. That a black guy that doesn't look like a "thug" and treats people respectful will be treated right. A white guy that acts like a "thug" and disrespects is going to be treated the same as the black guy acting the same way.

I just thought I would share her thoughts since she has a perspective that most on this board don't have.

interesting perspective but the Doctor that treated all of those police officers that were shot in dallas was black and he said when he doesnt wear the doctors coat and drives on the street he is pulled over or is stopped when walking on the street and he doesnt dress like a thug...we can all point to examples for anything

Interesting in an article about him being a rare black doctor
The lack of black male doctors is bad for patients. White doctors undertreat the pain of black patients, studies have shown. And research by the University of Virginia found that white medical students had "fantastical" beliefs about the bodies of blacks. Half of the white medical students surveyed thought that blacks had less sensitive nerve endings and that their blood clotted more quickly than the blood of a white person.

[packs]

Please inform your coworker that the Department of Justice found the Ferguson Police Department and it's court system to be racially bias toward African Americans. That was a government finding, not an opinion:

Even relatively routine misconduct by Ferguson police officers can have significant consequences for the people whose rights are violated. For example, in the summer of 2012, a 32-year-old African-American man sat in his car cooling off after playing basketball in a Ferguson public park. An officer pulled up behind the man’s car, blocking him in, and demanded the man’s Social Security number and identification. Without any cause, the officer accused the man of being a pedophile, referring to the presence of children in the park, and ordered the man out of his car for a pat-down, although the officer had no reason to believe the man was armed. The officer also asked to search the man’s car. The man objected, citing his constitutional rights. In response, the officer arrested the man, reportedly at gunpoint, charging him with eight violations of Ferguson’s municipal code. One charge, Making a False Declaration, was for initially providing the short form of his first name (e.g., “Mike” instead of “Michael”), and an address which, although legitimate, was different from the one on his driver’s license. Another charge was for not wearing a seat belt, even though he was seated in a parked car. The officer also charged the man both with having an expired operator’s license, and with having no operator’s license in his possession. The man told us that, because of these charges, he lost his job as a contractor with the federal government that he had held for years.