What are some of the more difficult sets from the 70's?

[ALR-bishop]

Howie---we have two mysteries going at once. I was referring to Dave's last postc on the 71 GM set

[moeson]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Howie---we have two mysteries going at once. I was referring to Dave's last posy on the 71 GM set

I know and it's a bit confusing but re-read his post where he says the first ad mentioning the 71 GM set was from 73 (June, not October like you and I wrote).

[toppcat]

First three pages are from October 1971 and the last from June 1973. Al has it right.

[moeson]

Originally Posted by toppcat

First three pages are from October 1971 and the last from June 1973. Al has it right.

Not trying to make a big deal out of this. I was addressing that the set was tested in Brooklyn during July 1971 and it made the sale ad in June of 1973 not by October 1971 per Al. The reselling did not occur that fast.

[DaClyde]

Not cards, but I'm going to throw the 1978 Sports Photo Association pins/buttons in here. I'm very curious if all of the buttons were actually issued in line with the numbering on the fronts. A lot of the pins are easy to find, but there are a ton that never seem to see the light of day, which is why I'm wondering if all the numbers 1-360+ were actually issued, or if the set is skip-numbered.

[ALR-bishop]

I get what you are saying Howie, not a few month but a couple of years before the GM offer by CCC.


The lack of wrappers for both sets make me think whatever distribution occurred for both was not via retail packs.

Maybe more info will turn up, it's only been 45 years or so

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

I get what you are saying Howie, not a few month but a couple of years before the GM offer by CCC.


The lack of wrappers for both sets make me think whatever distribution occurred for both was not via retail packs.

Maybe more info will turn up, it's only been 45 years or so

I think its a combination. Test issue fizzle, Fun Packs reissue, rest of inventory to CCC. They may have had other ads elsewhere with them that appeared earlier or their catalogs had listsings prior to mid 1973; they actually didn't advertise that much in TTS over the years and certainly were not in all issues.

Now the fact only the XP's were being sold by some "East Coast" dealers is interesting. Did the SP's get held back for eventual CCC full sets? I'm sure there's a great story about the way CCC became semi-integrated with Topps as ta third party reseller. I tried to get at the story and was working to get a call with Richard Gelman when I was entertaining the idea of doing a bio of Woody but it never happened and I'm not sure I have the time to really pursue it right now. Topps had all sorts of small revenue streams for sets that had been returned or didn't sell well.

CCC really started ramping up after they published a price guide in 1960 but had been selling Topps excess inventory for years prior, first as Sam Rosen (Woody Gelman's stepfather) and then Woody from 1959 forward after Rosen's death. Counting backwards from the catalog edition numbers puts the founding of Rosen/CCC in 1954. Rosen originally sold cards out of a building on 34th St in Manhattan (still standing) before CCC moved to Franklin Square on Long Island, which was the next town over from Woody, who lived in Malverne (and sometimes car pooled to work with Sy Berger, who lived a couple of towns east).

The Oct 15th pub date for that TTS means info was current through mid September. So dealers had the GM short sets before the end of the baseball season.

[steve B]

For what it's worth, when I got into cards in the late 70's I hung out at the local card shop and since I was interested they taught me stuff sometimes.

One day they showed me a test wrapper, maybe 74 deckle? And told me if I ever saw cards wrapped with that sort of wrapper to just buy them all, or as many as I had the money for.

They also said that people and dealers doing that was making Topps do fewer test issues since they couldn't get a reliable test.

I never did see any, but did occasionally find the odd item like thirst break gum. One pack, in a store that was part of the woolworths chain. Nasty stuff.

Steve B

[toppcat]

I think the real testing ended around 1974 along with the killing off of most ancillary baseball sets. It seems like once they did the 75 mini's the only items that seem like true retail tests are actually in house proofs and mockups. 1966-74 seems to be the test era; I even suspect the Dice Game cards may have been done in the early part of this time frame.