David Ortiz

[packs]

It doesn't bother you that the only players to produce similar careers are three known cheaters?

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by packs

It doesn't bother you that the only players to produce similar careers are three known cheaters?

I think Ortiz mirrored some Mannyworld 'practices' when they were teammates.

Ortiz is fan and media favorite, but...

I have always thought that the most-chronicled baseball team outside of New York City effectively 'sold their collective souls' (and their year-in and year-out status and identity as loveable losers.) by looking the other way as Championships finally were won.

I can only hope that doesn't occur in Chicago.

That's my two cents

[chaddurbin]

ortiz failed a drug test...i'm not against him being in the hall, but bonds clemens should be in first before him because they were better baseball players who also took ped. edgar martinez should be in before him also.

lastly if this great narrative he's riding gonna get him an mvp and screw trout again i'm gonna be pissed. if trout plays in bandboxes with awesome teammates like at fenway, camden, toronto, minute maid, arlington his numbers would DWARF all these guys. as is trout's number is awesome and should still theoretically net him an easy mvp all narratives aside.

[packs]

He's not even the best player on his own team though. How could anyone seriously vote for him over Betts if you're going to give it to a Boston player?

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by packs

He's not even the best player on his own team though. How could anyone seriously vote for him over Betts if you're going to give it to a Boston player?

There's a good possibility that their votes will cancel each other out...happens all the time with teammates.

Albert may actually take some of Trout's votes this year (110+ RBI). Plus, the Angels won't make the playoffs.

That may clear the way for Altuve.

.

[chaddurbin]

No one is voting for pujols. Actually with all the trout being screwed talk I think he's the favorite to win if everythjng is as status quo the last couple weeks.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by packs

He's not even the best player on his own team though. How could anyone seriously vote for him over Betts if you're going to give it to a Boston player?

This I agree with. (though, I think that MVP should go to the best player in each league and not be based on how good or bad their 24 teammates played)

I think the MVP is Trout because he provided the most production to his team by being the best player in the AL. Putting him on any team would make them 8 games better.

[the 'stache]

Curious that Ortiz couldn't get wet in a car wash while in Minny (108 OPS + in 1,700 PAs), yet he goes to Boston, cheater central, and he's immediately an MVP candidate.

It gets on my nerves to no end that Pappi is loved because he speaks broken English, and he's oh such a sweet guy, yet Ryan Braun gets vilified because he used a cream to heal an injury, and supposedly "threw the collector" under the bus. Both broke the rules. But, the truth is, everything Braun said about Dino Laurenzi Jr in that press conference was 100% accurate. None of that changes because his test result was positive. Laurenzi Jr sat on the sample for three days. The chain of custody was broken. His implicit instructions were not followed. He should have been fired regardless of the sample's test results. But Braun's a villain because he read a statement his attorneys typed up. And 5 years later, though he's served his suspension, made restitution, met with and apologized to Laurenzi Jr, and is now up for the Roberto Clemente Award (he's always been heavily active in charity work since coming to the Majors), Braun's still booed left and right though it's clear he's a fantastic player who doesn't need steroids to destroy a baseball.

The simple fact is that Braun came up to the Majors, and was immediately a superstar. Ortiz first came up to the Bigs in 1997, and didn't show any star power at all until 2003.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I am biased as a Bostonian, but even so I would pick Trout. Then Betts. I have always suspected Ortiz of using, honestly, and felt that he has been given a free pass because he is a genuinely nice, warm, accessible man and nobody wants to believe anything bad about him. I hope I am wrong.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Curious that Ortiz couldn't get wet in a car wash while in Minny (108 OPS + in 1,700 PAs), yet he goes to Boston, cheater central, and he's immediately an MVP candidate.

It gets on my nerves to no end that Pappi is loved because he speaks broken English, and he's oh such a sweet guy, yet Ryan Braun gets vilified because he used a cream to heal an injury, and supposedly "threw the collector" under the bus. Both broke the rules. But, the truth is, everything Braun said about Dino Laurenzi Jr in that press conference was 100% accurate. None of that changes because his test result was positive. Laurenzi Jr sat on the sample for three days. The chain of custody was broken. His implicit instructions were not followed. He should have been fired regardless of the sample's test results. But Braun's a villain because he read a statement his attorneys typed up. And 5 years later, though he's served his suspension, made restitution, met with and apologized to Laurenzi Jr, and is now up for the Roberto Clemente Award (he's always been heavily active in charity work since coming to the Majors), Braun's still booed left and right though it's clear he's a fantastic player who doesn't need steroids to destroy a baseball.

The simple fact is that Braun came up to the Majors, and was immediately a superstar. Ortiz first came up to the Bigs in 1997, and didn't show any star power at all until 2003.

From everything I've read Minn had him trying to be an entirely different sort of hitter. More of a go for singles and the opposite field type than a power hitter. Some can make that change, I figure most can't. And if you're told not to try to be a power hitter you really won't be.

18 HR in 89 games in 01 - with a pretty bad .234 average and 20 in 125 games in 02 with a passable .272 average doesn't really strike me as no power.

I do think that in some way Minnesota trying to change his hitting probably made him a better hitter in the long run.

Braun probably has gotten a bad deal. It's puzzling, but then doping stuff in all sports is puzzling.
Cycling seems to gladly welcome back those who admit it take their year or two off, or take the year or two with a plausible excuse. But totally clobber the ones who deny it even with the same plausible excuse. (Like eating meat that had BGH in it instead of organic stuff. ) And there, even when the officials are crooked the athlete is punished but the officials get nothing. Lance loses everything, which might be fair even though it's outside the current rules. but when some of the evidence is stuff like an official popping into the team tent to tell him "You didn't pass hematocrit levels, but it's ok Nike took care of it" there should be a few other people getting some punishment as well.

Ortiz tested positive for something that wasn't banned at the time, and has been fine since testing began. And that stuff can still be bought at GNC.....

A lot of the recent NFL suspensions have been from supplements that have supposedly been cleared by different regulators. Good rule of thumb, if it's not regulated by the FDA so you know that what's on the label is actually what's in it you probably should avoid it if you're in a sport.

Steve B

[rats60]

Originally Posted by packs

It doesn't bother you that the only players to produce similar careers are three known cheaters?

Ortiz is a known cheater.