Topps Venezuelans

[TheNightmanCometh]

Originally Posted by Manny Trillo

Thanks it sounds like a counterfeit operation

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It's not a counterfeit operation. You can tell the difference because the card stock used to make the cards is noticeably cheaper in quality. The cards, when held in hand come off as very fragile. Also, none of the VZs have any gloss on them like their American counterparts. Topps made them to take advantage of the growing popularity of baseball in Venezuela. Those are the #1 ways to tell the difference between a VZ Topps card and an American Topps card.

Now, if you're talking about the '67s, oh ya, those are counterfeit, IMO.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by TheNightmanCometh

Now, if you're talking about the '67s, oh ya, those are counterfeit, IMO.

Any info on these being counterfeit would be greatly appreciated. Don't have any just trying to add a little knowledge. I did have a Joe DiMaggio Retirado and I could easily see it as being a fantasy card with the horrible picture quality. The one I had was in both SGC(X2) and PSA slabs.

[DBesse27]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Any info on these being counterfeit would be greatly appreciated. Don't have any just trying to add a little knowledge. I did have a Joe DiMaggio Retirado and I could easily see it as being a fantasy card with the horrible picture quality. The one I had was in both SGC(X2) and PSA slabs.

Ryan and I have had extensive discussions about the 67's and what he means to say is that there is a growing belief within the hobby that they're not issued by Topps, that they're a pirated issue. I am of that belief. From a design standpoint (no borders, shitty picture quality) to the checklist (all the others follow a portion of the American Topps checklist exactly while the 67's have the retirado subset and also some players like bobby cox who were playing in Venezuela but not part of the American set) to the fact that there's more Spanish than you usually find in a Topps Venezuelan issue.... It just doesn't add up. Plus, starting in 1960, Topps issued Venies in even years: 1960, 62, 64, 66, 68. Why throw in 67? A lot doesn't make sense.

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by DBesse27

Ryan and I have had extensive discussions about the 67's and what he means to say is that there is a growing belief within the hobby that they're not issued by Topps, that they're a pirated issue. I am of that belief. From a design standpoint (no borders, shitty picture quality) to the checklist (all the others follow a portion of the American Topps checklist exactly while the 67's have the retirado subset and also some players like bobby cox who were playing in Venezuela but not part of the American set) to the fact that there's more Spanish than you usually find in a Topps Venezuelan issue.... It just doesn't add up. Plus, starting in 1960, Topps issued Venies in even years: 1960, 62, 64, 66, 68. Why throw in 67? A lot doesn't make sense.

Even if pirated, which I think is likely the case, I don't think they should be classified as counterfeit as they aren't exactly counterfeits in the traditional sense.

[DBesse27]

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

Even if pirated, which I think is likely the case, I don't think they should be classified as counterfeit as they aren't exactly counterfeits in the traditional sense.

Agreed.

[TheNightmanCometh]

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

Even if pirated, which I think is likely the case, I don't think they should be classified as counterfeit as they aren't exactly counterfeits in the traditional sense.

I am trying to collect a Braves Topps base card master set, which includes American, Venezuelan, and Canadian Topps cards, so for me I discount the '67 set from that list because I don't believe they were made or distributed by Topps at all.

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by TheNightmanCometh

I am trying to collect a Braves Topps base card master set, which includes American, Venezuelan, and Canadian Topps cards, so for me I discount the '67 set from that list because I don't believe they were made or distributed by Topps at all.

That makes sense. I excluded the Mantle Mask from my run as I don't believe it was produced by Topps.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

Even if pirated, which I think is likely the case, I don't think they should be classified as counterfeit as they aren't exactly counterfeits in the traditional sense.

The 1967 Venezuelan's are some of the toughest cards to find. I would think that Topps would have gone after any company infringing on their property - namely the cards they printed in 1967. There is evidence of packs and an album like other years. Perhaps like so many of the test issues of the era, Topps was testing some new ideas with the set. In all cases (even if it wasn't issued by Topps) the 67 Venezuelans are a BEAST to collect. It is certainly convenient (if it's not Topps - then I don't choose to collect it) to make a case for it not being a Topps product.

Howard

[TheNightmanCometh]

Originally Posted by hcv123

The 1967 Venezuelan's are some of the toughest cards to find. I would think that Topps would have gone after any company infringing on their property - namely the cards they printed in 1967. There is evidence of packs and an album like other years. Perhaps like so many of the test issues of the era, Topps was testing some new ideas with the set. In all cases (even if it wasn't issued by Topps) the 67 Venezuelans are a BEAST to collect. It is certainly convenient (if it's not Topps - then I don't choose to collect it) to make a case for it not being a Topps product.

Howard

I don't think there would be much Topps could do if someone in Venezuela released a set that looked similar to Topps set. Here in this thread someone posted that the '67 set isn't listed as a Topps set; if I remember correctly.

[TheNightmanCometh]

Originally Posted by DBesse27

Ryan and I have had extensive discussions about the 67's and what he means to say is that there is a growing belief within the hobby that they're not issued by Topps, that they're a pirated issue. I am of that belief. From a design standpoint (no borders, shitty picture quality) to the checklist (all the others follow a portion of the American Topps checklist exactly while the 67's have the retirado subset and also some players like bobby cox who were playing in Venezuela but not part of the American set) to the fact that there's more Spanish than you usually find in a Topps Venezuelan issue.... It just doesn't add up. Plus, starting in 1960, Topps issued Venies in even years: 1960, 62, 64, 66, 68. Why throw in 67? A lot doesn't make sense.

And to add to that, no other Topps VZ year has Venezuelan League cards.

[TheNightmanCometh]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Any info on these being counterfeit would be greatly appreciated. Don't have any just trying to add a little knowledge. I did have a Joe DiMaggio Retirado and I could easily see it as being a fantasy card with the horrible picture quality. The one I had was in both SGC(X2) and PSA slabs.

It's been awhile since I've done any research. Let me look around and talk to a couple of people and I'll get back to you on that.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by TheNightmanCometh

It's been awhile since I've done any research. Let me look around and talk to a couple of people and I'll get back to you on that.

Thank you, it would be greatly appreciated. Do you believe them to be printed in the proper time frame or are they a more modern fantasy set?

I understand there is a printer in Venezuela that was/is still printing the Venezuelan Topps cards and aging them. Not just the 67's but all years. I think there was even a thread on here about it warning people about the Venezuelan eBay seller that was peddling them.

[TheNightmanCometh]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Thank you, it would be greatly appreciated. Do you believe them to be printed in the proper time frame or are they a more modern fantasy set?

I understand there is a printer in Venezuela that was/is still printing the Venezuelan Topps cards and aging them. Not just the 67's but all years. I think there was even a thread on here about it warning people about the Venezuelan eBay seller that was peddling them.

Considering the current political and social climate over there, I don't think anyone is printing fakes today, nor have I heard of anything like that in the past.