What Is the Median Scarcity for Old Judge Poses?

[sandmountainslim]

The N172 is so fascinating to me. I sit and look at my T206 collection and wish I had just gone ahead and started collecting OJ six years ago instead.....I would probably have less than a dozen cards by now but how cool it would be

[Leon]

How anyone who loves baseball wouldn't love looking at N172s, I don't know? When these gems have great clarity and focus they can look almost 3D. And when they have any back damage they can look like that and grade a 1!!

Originally Posted by sandmountainslim

The N172 is so fascinating to me. I sit and look at my T206 collection and wish I had just gone ahead and started collecting OJ six years ago instead.....I would probably have less than a dozen cards by now but how cool it would be

[baztacula]

Originally Posted by Leon

How anyone who loves baseball wouldn't love looking at N172s, I don't know? When these gems have great clarity and focus they can look almost 3D. And when they have any back damage they can look like that and grade a 1!!

When I first saw scans of Old Judge cards on eBay, I thought for sure they were '3D' with the shadows I was seeing under some of the borders. Then I learned that the cards are just photographs of larger photographs that were all aligned within a template border overlay. This is what created the shadows... and the shadowy the better, in my opinion.

[oldjudge]

Since this thread has been revived I thought I would take the opportunity to add a little interesting information, especially for Milwaukee collectors. BTW, for the uninitiated, Fb and Fa are two types of 1888 Old Judge cards.
Last week, an 1888 Schenkel-Milwaukee Old Judge card showed up on eBay. It was the first known 1888 Schenkel. Because of that I took a quick look at 1888 Milwaukee cards (all of which are Fb). There are twenty players who played for Milwaukee in 1888 who have Old Judge cards. Two of these players, Winkleman and Howes played for both Minneapolis and Milwaukee that year. Each has Minneapolis Fa cards, but no known Milwaukee Fb cards. Five other players who played for Milwaukee in 1888 (Crossley, Ferson, Griffith, McAleer, Walsh) have no Fb card that is known. Seven of the players on the team are players who are very scarce (Cusick, Davin, Forster, Horner, Pettee, Stephens, Warner). Struck has a card with his name, but picturing Straus. Otherwise, he is unknown in the set. Two of the players (Fuller, Schenkel) are common players, but their Fb cards are quite scarce; witness the fact that the Schenkel was unlisted until the copy found last week appeared. That leaves Straus, Lowe and Maskrey. Maskrey has two poses with a Fb cards, all scarce; only one is listed in The Cartophilic Society Listing (CSL). Straus has three poses listed on Fb's, which are all scarce ( I have my doubts about the existence of pose two). Lowe has three Fb poses listed in the CSL, although one is called an Fb script. I'm not sure what that is--possibly an error. The other two poses are quite scarce. Where does that get us--32 or 33 Fb Milwaukee cards, and not an easy one in the group. I'm not sure why these Milwaukee cards are so tough, but they certainly are. If you find one you have hit an Old Judge home run.

Sent from my iPhone

[Joe_G.]

The Fb Milwaukee cards are indeed scarce, close to California League territory, as are some of the other Fb cards. If you are after a team, player, or pose that is only known as an Fb you could spend a lifetime waiting for one to surface. When I moved to Iowa 8 years ago I thought it might be interesting to obtain an example team card of all the Western Association teams from 1888 and 1889 and quickly realized that was a tough task. Most of the Western Association cards from 1888 are Fb and rarely surface. A single example from Milwaukee, St. Paul, and other teams may not surface for years. Fantastic pick-up on the Schenkel Jay! Finding an example from the Chicago Maroons, a recognized tough team, was actually much easier than the other teams (a couple Chicago & Des Moines players seem more available than others). Even outside of Western Association there are a lot of very tough Fb cards, think Anson in Uniform, McGreachery (or the other half of the Deacon White poses), 3rd Harry Wright pose, etc.

Regarding Fb script, they do exist. I suspect these came about when some of the Fb poses were created later in the year, after the negatives had been modified for cabinet cards. Here are two examples.

[oldjudge]

Of course, you are right Joe. I forgot about the Anson, but I don't recall ever seeing the Donnelly. The Fb script cards must be really tough also. Thanks for the input!

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by Joe_G.

Regarding Fb script, they do exist. I suspect these came about when some of the Fb poses were created later in the year, after the negatives had been modified for cabinet cards. Here are two examples.

Interesting, I also have the Donnelly, which is my only Fb script, unless this Deasley counts???

[tiger8mush]

p.s. neat Milwaukee items!

[Joe_G.]

Jay, thanks for sharing the Milwaukee information and the rare Straus/Struck card.

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

Interesting, I also have the Donnelly, which is my only Fb script, unless this Deasley counts???

Rob, nice Donnelly despite the condition. Your Deasley is actually an Fa, but much like my comment on the Fb-script, it appears to be a late 1888 issue as you can see the script behind the name-plate much like many of the 1889 Fc cards. The negative had already been modified in support of issuing the first cabinet cards. I also like those Fa New York cards with the writing in the border. How many do you now have?