Hall of Fame Announces "Old Timers" Ballot

conor912 · #1 11-07-2016, 05:00 PM

What a joke. The HOF supposed to be the best of the best, not the best of the pretty good. Of all the borderline guys, not one of these guys has ever crossed my mind.

clydepepper · #2 11-07-2016, 05:52 PM

I definitely think Bud Selig should go in.

Now, before you get all hyped up, think about the positive (business-wise if no other way) changes he implemented.

MLB is vastly better than it was before Bud Selig. IMHO

slidekellyslide · #3 11-07-2016, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clydepepper

I definitely think Bud Selig should go in.

Now, before you get all hyped up, think about the positive (business-wise if no other way) changes he implemented.

MLB is vastly better than it was before Bud Selig. IMHO

I think he ignored the obvious PED use for far too long to ever go in IMO.

Exhibitman · #4 11-07-2016, 07:28 PM

Personally, I'd like to see more recognition for non-players who contribute to the game. Not just broadcasters and managers. For example, Marvin Miller absolutely is integral to the story of the game and should be installed in the HOF ASAP.

I'd also like to see Sy Berger and Jefferson Burdick in there!

BearBailey · #5 11-07-2016, 08:01 PM

I would think selig would be a lock, can't imagine anyone else getting close?

dealme · #6 11-07-2016, 08:30 PM

I've never understood why the HOF and its voters seem to feel a need to vote people in every year. If there wasn't an induction every year, it would be more of an event in the years that there was.

I am of the opinion that the Hall is watered down as it is, and I don't grasp the concept that because a candidate only has X years left on the ballot, he's somehow more worthy of inclusion. In my opinion, Raines falls into this category. He was certainly a good ballplayer, but is he now more worthy of induction simply because he's about to drop off of the ballot? I also thought that Ron Santo's induction was a slap in the face (to Santo). It's as if the voters felt that since he had passed, he somehow became more worthy of induction.

I think that if there is any question as to whether a player should be in the Hall (be it his on-field performance, PEDs, criminal record, etc.), then he probably shouldn't be in the Hall. The only way this group should get into the Hall is the same way that most of us do: buy a ticket.

Tao_Moko · #7 11-07-2016, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dealme

I've never understood why the HOF and its voters seem to feel a need to vote people in every year. If there wasn't an induction every year, it would be more of an event in the years that there was.

I am of the opinion that the Hall is watered down as it is, and I don't grasp the concept that because a candidate only has X years left on the ballot, he's somehow more worthy of inclusion. In my opinion, Raines falls into this category. He was certainly a good ballplayer, but is he now more worthy of induction simply because he's about to drop off of the ballot? I also thought that Ron Santo's induction was a slap in the face (to Santo). It's as if the voters felt that since he had passed, he somehow became more worthy of induction.

I think that if there is any question as to whether a player should be in the Hall (be it his on-field performance, PEDs, criminal record, etc.), then he probably shouldn't be in the Hall. The only way this group should get into the Hall is the same way that most of us do: buy a ticket.

Santo's induction was a sad moment for me because, like you say, he apparently got more of a nod after death and nobody would have been more grateful than Ron to have been part of that celebration. Selig is knocked out for me based on his poor handling of ped's early on and also not fond of using the public to subsidize stadiums that no longer have affordable ticket pricing. However, he's been much better than most of his predecessors. The players on this ballet are in no way contenders in my opinion. I would like to see the HOF get back on a more elite track. *I'm never fond of armchair generals talking to me about their opinion of war/combat as there is only one way to truly have an opinion on it. Not that sports is anything comparable, but I do rely on the veterans committee to guide my opinion since I've never been more than a baseball spectator.

bigtrain · #8 11-08-2016, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dealme

I've never understood why the HOF and its voters seem to feel a need to vote people in every year. If there wasn't an induction every year, it would be more of an event in the years that there was.

I think that what most people don't realize is that while the Hall of Fame is a national institution, it is run by local people. Cooperstown is mostly small businesses that make all their money in about four months of the year. Induction is a very big deal to the locals. A year without a player being inducted is bad for the local economy. So while there have been years without inductions, I think the rules have been changed to make that less likely.

JollyElm · #9 11-07-2016, 08:49 PM

God, if that's the list of potential candidates, why don't they just enshrine everybody who has ever played the game and just be done with it.

Jim65 · #10 11-08-2016, 04:21 AM

The only player I would consider is Belle, personality aside, he was a better player than some already there like Andre Dawson and Jim Rice.

Steinbrenner was a criminal, twice suspended by MLB, if he ever makes it, it would be a friggin joke.

conor912 · #11 11-07-2016, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Personally, I'd like to see more recognition for non-players who contribute to the game. Not just broadcasters and managers. For example, Marvin Miller absolutely is integral to the story of the game and should be installed in the HOF ASAP.

I'd also like to see Sy Berger and Jefferson Burdick in there!

Berger I could get behind. Burdick not so much, but there's no way in hell I'm praising the guy responsible for the $400 box seat.

slidekellyslide · #12 11-07-2016, 09:19 PM

The hall of fame is not watered down in my opinion. They've been playing major league ball for 147 years now and 18,918 men have played in the major leagues. There are only 217 major leaguers in the hall of fame. One out of 87.

It's really hard to get into the major leagues. It's really hard to succeed in the major leagues, and it's really, really hard to excel over a career in the major leagues. When people say players like Tim Raines do not belong in the hall of fame it boggles my mind.

KingFisk · #13 11-07-2016, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

The hall of fame is not watered down in my opinion. They've been playing major league ball for 147 years now and 18,918 men have played in the major leagues. There are only 217 major leaguers in the hall of fame. One out of 87.

It's really hard to get into the major leagues. It's really hard to succeed in the major leagues, and it's really, really hard to excel over a career in the major leagues. When people say players like Tim Raines do not belong in the hall of fame it boggles my mind.

Agreed, with a caveat. It's safe to say the number of inductees is fine. It's just that a bunch of guys who are in shouldn't be, and a bunch of guys that should be aren't in.

clydepepper · #14 11-07-2016, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I think he ignored the obvious PED use for far too long to ever go in IMO.

We ALL did, Dan. And we all enjoyed the McGwire-to-Sosa-to-McGwire HR chase!

Financially, it was good for the game - though it is a good thing that it is over or, at least, not nearly so prevalent thanks in no small part to the new testing system that Selig helped put in place.

c

earlywynnfan · #15 11-07-2016, 10:15 PM

I really think Selig will get in, if not this year, eventually. Steroids or not, baseball grew more during his era than any other.

Belle was the scariest hitter of the 90's, but his career was too short. Or, to put it another way, his persona was so negative that voters won't overlook how short it was.

clydepepper · #16 11-07-2016, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

I really think Selig will get in, if not this year, eventually. Steroids or not, baseball grew more during his era than any other.

Belle was the scariest hitter of the 90's, but his career was too short. Or, to put it another way, his persona was so negative that voters won't overlook how short it was.

Albert Belle was a later version of Richie Allen - many parallels.

c

rats60 · #17 11-07-2016, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

I really think Selig will get in, if not this year, eventually. Steroids or not, baseball grew more during his era than any other.

Belle was the scariest hitter of the 90's, but his career was too short. Or, to put it another way, his persona was so negative that voters won't overlook how short it was.

Not because of anything that Selig did. From the cancelled World Series, to Steroids to the All Star game tie to making the All Star game count for World Series home field. His time on the job was a disaster.

Baseball has been declining in popularity over the last 25 years. Outside of the World Series, televised games are not even on the major networks anymore, but on niche cable channels. TV viewership is way down. Even with the Cubs winning the World Series, and huge game 7 viewership, average viewership was about half of what it was for the 1978 World Series and behind almost every year in the 80s and 90s. Viewership from 2008-15 was a disaster. I guess if Selig's job was to make owners money while damaging the game, he was successful, but that isn't hof worthy in my opinion.

clydepepper · #18 11-08-2016, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

Not because of anything that Selig did. From the cancelled World Series, to Steroids to the All Star game tie to making the All Star game count for World Series home field. His time on the job was a disaster.

Baseball has been declining in popularity over the last 25 years. Outside of the World Series, televised games are not even on the major networks anymore, but on niche cable channels. TV viewership is way down. Even with the Cubs winning the World Series, and huge game 7 viewership, average viewership was about half of what it was for the 1978 World Series and behind almost every year in the 80s and 90s. Viewership from 2008-15 was a disaster. I guess if Selig's job was to make owners money while damaging the game, he was successful, but that isn't hof worthy in my opinion.

Any opinion worth having is worth voicing...bravo

basesareempty · #19 11-08-2016, 10:23 AM

Harold Baines

Batting average
.289

Hits
2,866

Home runs
384

Runs batted in
1,628

Solid stats and borderline HOF. Knee injuries early in his career probably cost him 3000 hits which would have gotten him in.

Louieman · #20 11-08-2016, 10:33 AM

Well I can't speak on behalf of others but my dislike for used car salesman Bud Selig has been very consistent since he started. But I was a kid in the 90s...let me sift through my mom's garage and see if I have any fingerpainting or personal narratives that conveyed the message....

packs · #21 11-08-2016, 10:51 AM

Something I think should be recognized re: Selig is how much harder he made it for regular people to attend a game as a family. Under his watch 19 publicly funded stadiums were built. It now costs an average of $77 for 2 people to attend a game. In 1993 it cost a family of 4 $91 to attend a game.

rats60 · #22 11-07-2016, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conor912

What a joke. The HOF supposed to be the best of the best, not the best of the pretty good. Of all the borderline guys, not one of these guys has ever crossed my mind.

Agree with this. Schuerholz is the only one on this list that even deserves consideration. There is no need to water down the HOF any more. As for those throwing out Trammell, Whitaker, Garvey, Murphy, etc. those guys are all modern era. This is for 1988 to present which is mostly going to be steroid users and nonplayers. This committee makes little sense at this point.

kmac32 · #23 11-07-2016, 08:56 PM

Maybe Steinbrenner

Yoda · #24 11-08-2016, 10:06 AM

Not "lighthearted" Albert Belle? I am surprised he isn't in jail..

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