Hobby history: Card dealers of the early 1960s, part 1: Taylor vs. Gelman

[toppcat]

OK, this is really fantastic stuff! I do hope you compile all of this into a book or website someday.

[Sean]

Great stuff. It even includes a young Bill Heitman at age eleven.

[Exhibitman]

I love this. As so many older dealers and collectors pass it is so useful to see what the past generations created. Thanks for posting. I second the motion for a history of collecting book.

[mikemb]

This is great! Thank you.

Can't wait for the next part as that will be the time I started collecting.

Mike

[VoodooChild]

Originally Posted by toppcat

OK, this is really fantastic stuff! I do hope you compile all of this into a book or website someday.

+1

I would definitely buy that book!

[ls7plus]

Fascinating!!! Shows us how incredibly far we have come!

Highest regards,

Larry

[insidethewrapper]

I remember my dad ordering the 1958 Topps Set in 1958 and receiving each series through out the summer. I couldn't wait for the mailman to come each day. I wish I would have received the 1952 Topps Set which is listed for $ 79. But as a 7 year old I didn't even know what a 1952 Topps card looked like.

Did anyone on here ever order the 1952 Topps set for $ 79 or less ?

[chicagoaustin]

I bought the 1958s in wax packs of 6 cards with bubble gum in the Chicago neighborhoods, at ma and pa grocery stores or local Walgreen’s. Those 4 cards, Harrell, Ward, Geiger and Hardy were simply not included in those wax packs—they were the only unmarked cards on my topps series checklist. My friends who collected had the same problem with those four. Later in the year I went to downtown Chicago, to some event with my parents; we went into a downtown Walgreen’s, and they were selling cello packs of 10 cards, fifth series, no bubble gum, where you could see the top and bottom card. I instantly saw all four rare cards on the tops and bottoms of several of these packs, so I bought three packs—enough to insure I got one of each, I got two of each except Ward. So I would conclude, whatever the actual volume of those four cards was in relation to others in the same series, the distribution of those four cards was not consistent in wax packs, where all cards in a series can ordinarily be expected to be found in roughly equal numbers.

The first four series of topps 1958 were actually issued in groups of 110, so the first four "series" covered 1-440. The fifth series was exactly half that, 55 cards, from 441 to 495. You’d think Topps could have used the ordinary 110 card sheet to print the fifth series in duplicate, without creating any short prints, so the reason for those four short prints is still a mystery to me.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by chicagoaustin

I bought the 1958s in wax packs of 6 cards with bubble gum in the Chicago neighborhoods, at ma and pa grocery stores or local Walgreen’s. Those 4 cards, Harrell, Ward, Geiger and Hardy were simply not included in those wax packs—they were the only unmarked cards on my topps series checklist. My friends who collected had the same problem with those four. Later in the year I went to downtown Chicago, to some event with my parents; we went into a downtown Walgreen’s, and they were selling cello packs of 10 cards, fifth series, no bubble gum, where you could see the top and bottom card. I instantly saw all four rare cards on the tops and bottoms of several of these packs, so I bought three packs—enough to insure I got one of each, I got two of each except Ward. So I would conclude, whatever the actual volume of those four cards was in relation to others in the same series, the distribution of those four cards was not consistent in wax packs, where all cards in a series can ordinarily be expected to be found in roughly equal numbers.

The first four series of topps 1958 were actually issued in groups of 110, so the first four "series" covered 1-440. The fifth series was exactly half that, 55 cards, from 441 to 495. You’d think Topps could have used the ordinary 110 card sheet to print the fifth series in duplicate, without creating any short prints, so the reason for those four short prints is still a mystery to me.

Just plain old Topps shenanigans:

http://www.thetoppsarchives.com/2010...-your-fun.html

http://www.thetoppsarchives.com/2010...ing-slots.html

[ALBB]

great research...very entertaining

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Did anyone on here ever order the 1952 Topps set for $ 79 or less ?

No, but I did order thirty Mantles for fifty cents each! I still own them all today!

[Yoda]

Wonderful contribution. Nice to see Bill H. before he became the Monster.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

No, but I did order thirty Mantles for fifty cents each! I still own them all today!

That is absolutely insane!

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by jingram058

That is absolutely insane!

I believe he was yanking our collective (collector) chains.

Brian

[BCD]

Is David Festberg?!
😏

[jsq]

david nice articles and research. thank you for the effort.

since you are from chi town you probably know jim zak, jim was a fixture at chi town card shows through the 80's and at least into the 90's.

jim was a real nice person, don't know what he is up to know but i wish him all the best. also his connection with gelman is something jim did not discuss much.

it sounds like jim zak, as a true hobby pioneer, would be a fantastic interview subject. in the 90's i think he was living in berwyn. has anyone ever done an interview with jim zak??

[Moyni]

I am so impressed by this. Great job OP!!

[brianp-beme]

David these articles are a fantastic look at the history of the development of the hobby. Thanks, and keep up the good work!

Many decades ago my much older brother gifted me either the 1962 or 1963 Card Collector's catalog, the only bit of hobby ephemera that he had saved, and which I still have buried somewhere. I always found it fascinating to ponder what my brother could have ordered (I don't believe he ever did any mail ordering), and now can place it within the history of the hobby dealer, thanks to your postings.

Thanks again, and looking forward to the next salvo...

Brian

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

David these articles are a fantastic look at the history of the development of the hobby. Thanks, and keep up the good work!

Many decades ago my much older brother gifted me either the 1962 or 1963 Card Collector's catalog, the only bit of hobby ephemera that he had saved, and which I still have buried somewhere. I always found it fascinating to ponder what my brother could have ordered (I don't believe he ever did any mail ordering), and now can place it within the history of the hobby dealer, thanks to your postings.

Thanks again, and looking forward to the next salvo...

Brian

I did find that catalog, and posted it on a separate thread, but for some reason never bothered to post it on this thread. Life has given me a second opportunity to rectify this oversight and to serve mankind in a tiny way. Here is that post from 2017:


1963 Card Collectors Company Order...almost

In David's series of postings about the history of the hobby he included a scan of a Card Collectors Company price list from the early 1960's. I found my much older brother's copy of this price list (he handed over all his hobby stuff to me and my other brother back in the early 1970's), and included in the price list is an order form filled out by my brother.

He was a big Dodgers and Duke Snider fan, so it is not surprising that all the higher price (10 and 15 cent) early 50's cards he has listed feature Duke Snider. He also has the Snider and Ted Williams 1956 Topps Buttons (Pins) on the order form.

Even his alternate choices in the 1957 set for the most part showcased his search for the stars: Ted Williams, Aaron, Ford, F. Robinson, Spahn, Snider, Koufax, Campanella, Yankees Power Hitters card, while his Dodgers slant accounts for Jim Gilliam, Dodgers Sluggers and Dodgers Team Card selection. The Giles/Harridge card selection is just plain weird and my brother is no longer invited to future family gatherings because of it.

His was probably a typical kid order...trying to get the big names at the flat rate listed for each year. I can definitely see that it was just this type of order that would have, like David laid out in his posting, lead to dealers implementing more extensive tiered pricing for the star players in a set.

Alas, he never mailed this order off, so the Card Collectors Company never got his hard earned dollar, but at least you all get to see my brother's relatively neat handwriting.

Brian (my brother's name has been intentionally obscured to protect the guilty. A bonus is that the order should come quicker now due to the advent of Priority Mail).