Dan McKee is a Star

[slidekellyslide]

Zinn's daughter filled out his HOF form in 1949 and listed him as "Jewish". That's rock solid to me. She would have no reason to lie, and she IMO being directly related to him and having I assume lived with him for probably the first 18-20 years of her life might know something about him.

This is 100% sour grapes.

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Zinn's daughter filled out his HOF form in 1949 and listed him as "Jewish". That's rock solid to me. She would have no reason to lie, and she IMO being directly related to him and having I assume lived with him for probably the first 18-20 years of her life might know something about him.

This is 100% sour grapes.

You trust his daughter over some unidentified woman who did "extensive" research on ancestory.com?

[PhillipAbbott79]

I am not sure it matters. You have one guy on the face of the planet that wanted to spend a monstrous sum of money over what the card is probably worth on a card that is at my guess a low population and also low demand.

If he or I was a business man, that was the right time to sell. It is likely worth less to a lot of other people. Values, morals or not, it will likely never be sold for more than what was offered, but I have definitely been wrong before. LOL.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

I am not sure it matters. You have one guy on the face of the planet that wanted to spend a monstrous sum of money over what the card is probably worth on a card that is at my guess a low population and also low demand.

If he or I was a business man, that was the right time to sell. It is likely worth less to a lot of other people. Values, morals or not, it will likely never be sold for more than what was offered, but I have definitely been wrong before. LOL.

It seems pretty simple to me. He backed out of the deal he had agreed to after Dan did exactly what was asked of him and got the card graded. The grade didn't change anything about the card. It was the same card he had already agreed to buy and it was still the only one known. Whatever it graded was largely irrelevant. It just gave the guy an excuse to reneg. That's BS and I don't blame Dan a bit for telling the guy to F off. I would have too.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

It seems pretty simple to me. He backed out of the deal he had agreed to after Dan did exactly what was asked of him and got the card graded. The grade didn't change anything about the card. It was the same card he had already agreed to buy and it was still the only one known. Whatever it graded was largely irrelevant. It just gave the guy an excuse to reneg. That's BS and I don't blame Dan a bit for telling the guy to F off. I would have too.

Well, like I was saying, I know he can do what he wants, and that he did do what he wants and I don't fault him for it, BUT it was likely from a financial decision a terrible idea to do what he did. He will likely never get that price again. That was the point. Nothing more or less.

[Snapolit1]

If you think that hasn't hurt the value of this card I have a large box of Jose Fernandez rookie card I would like to sell you.

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If you think that hasn't hurt the value of this card I have a large box of Jose Fernandez rookie card I would like to sell you.

Who cares/..... I am keeping it so if it is valued at $100 or $1,000,000.00 doesn't matter.... I have tons of other expensive cards so means nothing to me!

[pbspelly]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

It seems pretty simple to me. He backed out of the deal he had agreed to after Dan did exactly what was asked of him and got the card graded. The grade didn't change anything about the card. It was the same card he had already agreed to buy and it was still the only one known. Whatever it graded was largely irrelevant. It just gave the guy an excuse to reneg. That's BS and I don't blame Dan a bit for telling the guy to F off. I would have too.

I'm not sure this is correct. Maybe I misread the article, but it seemed to me that the buyer was alleging that the photos Dan displayed of the card misrepresented the card's condition. The buyer never actually saw the card in person, and so was going by photos Dan had posted on eBay. I've seen complaints here all the time about eBay photos that are doctored to make a card's condition look better than it really is. I'm not saying that Dan did that. I don't know Dan, but everyone here seems to speak highly of him so I'm sure that isn't the case. I'm just saying that that seems to be what the dispute is about, whether the condition of the card is actually the same as it appeared in the photos.

[irv]

Originally Posted by pbspelly

I'm not sure this is correct. Maybe I misread the article, but it seemed to me that the buyer was alleging that the photos Dan displayed of the card misrepresented the card's condition. The buyer never actually saw the card in person, and so was going by photos Dan had posted on eBay. I've seen complaints here all the time about eBay photos that are doctored to make a card's condition look better than it really is. I'm not saying that Dan did that. I don't know Dan, but everyone here seems to speak highly of him so I'm sure that isn't the case. I'm just saying that that seems to be what the dispute is about, whether the condition of the card is actually the same as it appeared in the photos.

That is what I thought as well when I read the article. I immediately thought of Battlefield and how she "manipulates" her cards to look better than what they actually are.

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by irv

That is what I thought as well when I read the article. I immediately thought of Battlefield and how she "manipulates" her cards to look better than what they actually are.

This is complete BULLSHIT! I sent him regular scans at 300 dpi

I sell as darby-s and you get what you see in my listings

Thanks for reminding me why I stopped posting here

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by irv

That is what I thought as well when I read the article. I immediately thought of Battlefield and how she "manipulates" her cards to look better than what they actually are.

Someone please send me Irv's ebay ID so I can block it, anyone comparing me to that scumbag battlefield has no right ever doing business with me. Look at my feedback as darby-s, this is completely unwarranted.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by pbspelly

I'm not sure this is correct. Maybe I misread the article, but it seemed to me that the buyer was alleging that the photos Dan displayed of the card misrepresented the card's condition. The buyer never actually saw the card in person, and so was going by photos Dan had posted on eBay. I've seen complaints here all the time about eBay photos that are doctored to make a card's condition look better than it really is. I'm not saying that Dan did that. I don't know Dan, but everyone here seems to speak highly of him so I'm sure that isn't the case. I'm just saying that that seems to be what the dispute is about, whether the condition of the card is actually the same as it appeared in the photos.

Thank about that for a minute. There is only one card known. ONE. Why would Dan alter a scan to improve the condition of the ONLY card known in order to sell it to a guy who is allegedly begging to buy it? Why would he try to do that? That doesn't even make sense when the only question is if the card is real. Plus, I don't think Dan would do that even if he could. He has never been anything but honest and upfront in the dealings I've had with him. Just my opinion but if that's the allegation, I would believe Dan over the buyer based on the currently available facts.

Kenny

[irv]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Thank about that for a minute. There is only one card known. ONE. Why would Dan alter a scan to improve the condition of the ONLY card known in order to sell it to a guy who is allegedly begging to buy it? Why would he try to do that? That doesn't even make sense when the only question is if the card is real. Plus, I don't think Dan would do that even if he could. He has never been anything but honest and upfront in the dealings I've had with him. Just my opinion but if that's the allegation, I would believe Dan over the buyer based on the currently available facts.

Kenny

These quotes were what I used to come to my conclusion. I am not saying, suggesting or alluding to this is what was done by, Dan, it was based on what was written within the article.

"Aeder balked because, he said, he received a poor appraisal of the card’s condition".

"The final grade disturbed Aeder. “The pictures he had sent did not look like it was a one,” Aeder said".

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Thank about that for a minute. There is only one card known. ONE. Why would Dan alter a scan to improve the condition of the ONLY card known in order to sell it to a guy who is allegedly begging to buy it? Why would he try to do that? That doesn't even make sense when the only question is if the card is real. Plus, I don't think Dan would do that even if he could. He has never been anything but honest and upfront in the dealings I've had with him. Just my opinion but if that's the allegation, I would believe Dan over the buyer based on the currently available facts.

Kenny

To add another 2 cents to the debate, I am sure there are many instances where a seller gives perfectly honest scans and the card just looks subjectively different in hand. Lighting, angle, etc. No attempt by anyone to defraud anyone. I have the damnedest time sometimes getting halfway decent scans.

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by pbspelly

I'm not sure this is correct. Maybe I misread the article, but it seemed to me that the buyer was alleging that the photos Dan displayed of the card misrepresented the card's condition. The buyer never actually saw the card in person, and so was going by photos Dan had posted on eBay. I've seen complaints here all the time about eBay photos that are doctored to make a card's condition look better than it really is. I'm not saying that Dan did that. I don't know Dan, but everyone here seems to speak highly of him so I'm sure that isn't the case. I'm just saying that that seems to be what the dispute is about, whether the condition of the card is actually the same as it appeared in the photos.

This is ridiculous, I do not doctor photos, the guy viewing them is a complete ignorant non collecting idiot.

[1880nonsports]

only if his MOTHER was Jewish or she had converted from a religious standpoint. Not sure what the rules for the Jewish Museum are (self-serving?). He could still practice the faith in either case.

[mark evans]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

only if his MOTHER was Jewish or she had converted from a religious standpoint. Not sure what the rules for the Jewish Museum are (self-serving?). He could still practice the faith in either case.

I'm unfamiliar with the Museum's standards but believe that Jewish Sports Review does not follow strict doctrine and thus includes all athletes where either parent is Jewish, athlete did not practice another faith during career, and self-identifies as ethnically Jewish.

But, even if one were to adopt this broader standard, Zinn's status remains unclear as the Wechsler article states that BOTH of his parents were Christians. I would be most interested in learning the basis for that conclusion, which would appear to be inconsistent with the HOF library form completed by Zinn's daughter. To square the conclusion that both parents were Christians with the form would require quite a stretch -- that Zinn's daughter interpreted the term 'ancestry' to mean the folks in the 'old country' and not necessarily Zinn's religion.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by mark evans

I'm unfamiliar with the Museum's standards but believe that Jewish Sports Review does not follow strict doctrine and thus includes all athletes where either parent is Jewish, athlete did not practice another faith during career, and self-identifies as ethnically Jewish.

But, even if one were to adopt this broader standard, Zinn's status remains unclear as the Wechsler article states that BOTH of his parents were Christians. I would be most interested in learning the basis for that conclusion, which would appear to be inconsistent with the HOF library form completed by Zinn's daughter. To square the conclusion that both parents were Christians with the form would require quite a stretch -- that Zinn's daughter interpreted the term 'ancestry' to mean the folks in the 'old country' and not necessarily Zinn's religion.

Mark, I believe it was religious rather than national origin because decades ago using religion was a commonplace part of ethnic identification alongside national origins. In the 1921-28 issues with the printed backs Jewish fighters were labeled as “Jewish”, “Jewish-American”, “Hebrew” or “Hebrew-American”, while fighters from other immigrant populations were categorized as “hyphen-Americans” (Polish-American, German-American, etc.) or from their family’s original locations. This applied even to fighters who were born in the United States. It is typical to see a fighter born in New York listed as Hebrew, Irish, Polish or Scottish. My favorite one of these nationality identifiers was that of Leo Lomski, a native Washingtonian who was identified in the 1928 set as “Polish-Jewish-American”. The racial tone of the era also was reflected in the cards. African-American fighters were frequently referred to as “colored” champions.

[mark evans]

Thanks, Adam.

You know it also occurred to me that, while certainly not the most likely explanation for squaring Zinn's alleged Christian parents with the HOF form, it is possible that he merely claimed to be Jewish, for whatever reason I cannot imagine. But, I believe another early ballplayer (Jacob Atz?) apparently did that very thing.

[ramram]

For Zinn to be considered Jewish, it would only be necessary for his mother to be Jewish, correct? So Zinn, his father, is not terribly relevant. It would be his mother. It would be interesting to know her story and maiden name. They could have then chose to raise their kids Christian, following the father's faith.

Rob M

[howard38]

Originally Posted by mark evans

Thanks, Adam.

You know it also occurred to me that, while certainly not the most likely explanation for squaring Zinn's alleged Christian parents with the HOF form, it is possible that he merely claimed to be Jewish, for whatever reason I cannot imagine. But, I believe another early ballplayer (Jacob Atz?) apparently did that very thing.

He may have been marketed as a Jew by the Yankees. He played for them at the height of the Jewish migration to NYC in the 1910s so it could have been a stunt to draw in Jewish fans. I believe the New York Rangers did something like that in their early days.