Mlb hof tracker

[Topps206]

So we likely get four next year - Vlad, Hoffman, Chipper and Thome.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Topps206

So we likely get four next year - Vlad, Hoffman, Chipper and Thome.

That's a good, less controversial class.


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[dgo71]

The lack of support Jeff Kent received is criminal. His stats are impressive in general, but when compared to second basemen he is in the top 3 (1st in many) on just about every offensive stat that matters.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by dgo71

The lack of support Jeff Kent received is criminal. His stats are impressive in general, but when compared to second basemen he is in the top 3 (1st in many) on just about every offensive stat that matters.

The fact that that Kent has stayed on 4 years is not criminal when compared to other, arguably, more qualified. In their first years on the ballot the following players didn't make it past 5%:

Bobby Grich only got 2.6%
Lou Whitaker - 2.9%
Willie Randolph - 1.1%

A quick comparison in stats that are used to compare between era and teams:
Name****WAR****oWAR****dWAR****OPS+
J. Kent****55.2****59.3****-0.6****123
B.Grich****70.9****62.1****16.2****125
L. Whitaker****74.9****67.1****15.4****117
W. Randolph****65.5****53.6****19.4****104

The only stats that seem to matter to you are HR, SLG, RBI (since these are the only stats he is top 3 for first basemen). His HR only was in the top 10 once in his career (2002-37, 7th). RBI top 10 6 times, but top 5 only three times. His slugging only made it in top 10 twice.

His negative dWAR (also his runs from fielding being -42, and leading the league in errors 4 times) shows that he could have been put at another position as he wasn't any better than the average replacement player at 2nd base. You do this and his comparison for Offensive play doesn't hold up anymore.
Also you need take into account his offensive stats were inflated batting after Bonds. His time with the Giants his WAR average was 5.23, the rest of his career his average was 2.16.

[dgo71]

OK, my quick glance wasn't accurate, but Kent is still at the top of the leaderboard in many important areas.

HR - 1st with 377
Doubles - 4th with 560
Hits - 12th with 2461 (ahead of Whitaker marginally, ahead of Grich and significantly ahead of Randolph)
OPS - 6th with .855 (behind Ryan Schimpf who has 89 career games and Ross Barnes who played in the 1880's...others ahead of him are Hornsby, Gehringer and Jackie Robinson - pretty good company)
SLG - 3rd at .500 (again behind Jackie and the apparently HOF-bound Ryan Schimpf...)

5 All-Stars, 4 silver sluggers, 2000 NL MVP with 3 other Top 9 finishes.

I do hear defense as a detractor for Kent, but his career fielding average is just a couple points lower than Grich and Whitaker, and slightly ahead of Randolph. Kent never once led the league in errors. Do you mean he led second basemen in errors? That's plausible, but he never led the league in that category.

Not taking away from Grich or Whitaker because I could definitely get behind their enshrinement as well (Randolph not as much) but Kent has more than enough on his resume to garner much more consideration than he's getting. I really think the biggest knock on him was the fact that nobody really liked the guy. Media and teammates alike were all pretty consistent in feeling he was a jerk and that's coming back to haunt him, which is a shame really because it shouldn't be a popularity contest. If he had those stats with Kirby Puckett's personality he would've been a first ballot guy.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by dgo71

OK, my quick glance wasn't accurate, but Kent is still at the top of the leaderboard in many important areas.

HR - 1st with 377
Doubles - 4th with 560
Hits - 12th with 2461 (ahead of Whitaker marginally, ahead of Grich and significantly ahead of Randolph)
OPS - 6th with .855 (behind Ryan Schimpf who has 89 career games and Ross Barnes who played in the 1880's...others ahead of him are Hornsby, Gehringer and Jackie Robinson - pretty good company)
SLG - 3rd at .500 (again behind Jackie and the apparently HOF-bound Ryan Schimpf...)

5 All-Stars, 4 silver sluggers, 2000 NL MVP with 3 other Top 9 finishes.

Not taking away from Grich or Whitaker because I could definitely get behind their enshrinement as well (Randolph not as much) but Kent has more than enough on his resume to garner much more consideration than he's getting. I really think the biggest knock on him was the fact that nobody really liked the guy. Media and teammates alike were all pretty consistent in feeling he was a jerk and that's coming back to haunt him, which is a shame really because it shouldn't be a popularity contest. If he had those stats with Kirby Puckett's personality he would've been a first ballot guy.

You say the biggest knock is his personality, but I gave you legitimate stat ones. You are comparing him to other 2nd basemen, but he could have very well ended up at 3rd and then his offensive stats would just be good not great. His numbers only look good when you end the statement with "for a second baseman". You can't take a good batsman and put in at a position where other's weren't as good and base it off of that. If you are going to compare him to other 2nd basemen it is best to compare his full performance and his defense didn't hold up.

As I mentioned before his numbers were inflated by Bonds who in the six years walked 840 times (159/162 games).

Giants years (900games) .297 BA/ .368 OBP/ .535 SLG
All other years (1333games) .286 BA/ .348 OBP/ .477 SLG

His per 162 game numbers don't hold up when he wasn't with Bonds either:
Giants 184 hits / 32HR/ 19.62 ABperHR / 124 RBI
Other Teams 169 hits/ 24 HR/ 25.11 AB per HR/ 96 RBI

All of his awards and noteworthy seasons come from that 6 year stretch with the Giants. Move him to another position or to another team and we wouldn't even be talking about him.

[dgo71]

I disagree that his defensive faults negate his offense. He wasn't the butcher at second you're trying to make him out to be. He lacked range for sure but throughout his career he wasn't awful at the position. Saying you "could have" moved him to another position isn't legitimate statistical fact, it's speculation. He was a second baseman whether he might have been better at another position or not. It's worth noting too that his years in San Fran were also during his prime years. Obviously hitting with Bonds in the lineup helped but it was also the time of his career that he should have been most productive. I respect your view that he doesn't measure up in your eyes but I maintain that he should eventually get in. Definitely feel that he merits better than 16% of the vote or whatever it was.