Mr. Mint, 1988 vs. 2012

[jsq]

i think we debunked the 52 topps tossed off a barge story, in a earlier post about old time dealers - gelman. the barge story of disposing of 52 topps is related in the article quote below by rosen:

Lest Rosen gives the impression he has no feeling for baseball cards, he insists he still gets a rush every time he comes across a stash of mint or excellent-to-mint Topps cards from the 1950s, or Goudeys from the ’30s or Play Balls from the ’40s — which, sadly for him, is becoming a rarer and rarer occurrence. His all-time find remains the case of mint to near mint high number 1952 Topps cards he bought from a guy in New England in 1986 whose father had worked for the company. In 1952, the last series of Topps cards was not issued until September when all the kids had gone back to school and it was predominately available in the New York area. Years later, Topps officials reportedly took hundreds of cases of the unsold high numbers, one of which was the famed Mickey Mantle rookie card No. 311, on a barge and dumped them into the Atlantic Ocean.

“So this guy calls me and tells me he’s got 1-3 cards of each of the high numbers,” Rosen remembers. “Then he calls the next day and says he’s actually got 7-10 of each. Then the third day he calls again and says it’s more like 50-75 of each. At that point I said: ‘Yeah, and I’m the tooth fairy.’ But the next day I was in my car and at his doorstep, with a briefcase full of cash, where, it turned out he really did have 75 of every high number in the set, including 75 Mantles. I paid him $125,000 in cash and sold it piecemeal over the next couple of weeks for $475,000. Just two years ago, nine near-mint Mantles sold for $1.4 million.”

the debunking has to do with David Kathmans excellent posts regarding early card dealers ie woody gelman. gelman was totally wired at the hip with topps and was selling 52 topps high numbers right out of the gate at a premium in the early 50's. no way they would have years later taken them out on a barge and thrown them in the ocean. i say it never happened and is merely a good story.

another interesting insight is note the interviews posted on this site by david kathman: the 1988 interview of rosen he says he paid $80k for the 52 topps find, by 2012 it had grown to a payment of $125k.

likwise rosen in the 88 article says he sold them for a total of $310k but by 2012 his memory now says they were sold in a matter of weeks for a total of $475k.

what did rosen really pay and sell for, it does not matter but it highlights you can't take everything for gospel even if it comes from the person directly involved. especially if that person is a born salesman.

by the way you should see the fish i caught when i was a kid!!!!

as far as rosen finding a case of the 52 topps, absolutely happened. what he paid for them and sold them for is approximately what he says in two different printed news stories interviewing him.

did topps ever toss out the 52 topps high numbers via a barge on a one way viking style funeral to the ocean, not a chance in my opinion. never happened but it is a great story.

[Bruinsfan94]

Anyone know the story behind the half of Wagner Rosen talks about? Has it sold since?

[irv]

Originally Posted by jsq

i think we debunked the 52 topps tossed off a barge story, in a earlier post about old time dealers - gelman. the barge story of disposing of 52 topps is related in the article quote below by rosen:

Lest Rosen gives the impression he has no feeling for baseball cards, he insists he still gets a rush every time he comes across a stash of mint or excellent-to-mint Topps cards from the 1950s, or Goudeys from the ’30s or Play Balls from the ’40s — which, sadly for him, is becoming a rarer and rarer occurrence. His all-time find remains the case of mint to near mint high number 1952 Topps cards he bought from a guy in New England in 1986 whose father had worked for the company. In 1952, the last series of Topps cards was not issued until September when all the kids had gone back to school and it was predominately available in the New York area. Years later, Topps officials reportedly took hundreds of cases of the unsold high numbers, one of which was the famed Mickey Mantle rookie card No. 311, on a barge and dumped them into the Atlantic Ocean.

“So this guy calls me and tells me he’s got 1-3 cards of each of the high numbers,” Rosen remembers. “Then he calls the next day and says he’s actually got 7-10 of each. Then the third day he calls again and says it’s more like 50-75 of each. At that point I said: ‘Yeah, and I’m the tooth fairy.’ But the next day I was in my car and at his doorstep, with a briefcase full of cash, where, it turned out he really did have 75 of every high number in the set, including 75 Mantles. I paid him $125,000 in cash and sold it piecemeal over the next couple of weeks for $475,000. Just two years ago, nine near-mint Mantles sold for $1.4 million.”

the debunking has to do with David Kathmans excellent posts regarding early card dealers ie woody gelman. gelman was totally wired at the hip with topps and was selling 52 topps high numbers right out of the gate at a premium in the early 50's. no way they would have years later taken them out on a barge and thrown them in the ocean. i say it never happened and is merely a good story.

another interesting insight is note the interviews posted on this site by david kathman: the 1988 interview of rosen he says he paid $80k for the 52 topps find, by 2012 it had grown to a payment of $125k.

likwise rosen in the 88 article says he sold them for a total of $310k but by 2012 his memory now says they were sold in a matter of weeks for a total of $475k.

what did rosen really pay and sell for, it does not matter but it highlights you can't take everything for gospel even if it comes from the person directly involved. especially if that person is a born salesman.

by the way you should see the fish i caught when i was a kid!!!!

as far as rosen finding a case of the 52 topps, absolutely happened. what he paid for them and sold them for is approximately what he says in two different printed news stories interviewing him.

did topps ever toss out the 52 topps high numbers via a barge on a one way viking style funeral to the ocean, not a chance in my opinion. never happened but it is a great story.

Some strange stories/numbers for sure.

I also no longer believe the high number 52's were dumped in the ocean based on that story you are referring to.

[Exhibitman]

I noticed the discrepancies too. Ol Alan was a flim-flam man to the end. Fun to watch but a bit cringe-worthy to deal with.

[Piratedogcardshows]

Great couple of articles David.

[swarmee]

Is this the Wagner he sold as "better than having a half loaf of bread"? It's the only one pictured on http://t206resource.com/Wagner-Gallery.html that fits the description. Unless there's another half a Wagner floating around somewhere. I didn't realize that PSA Serial #00000002 was a Wagner as well.
Maybe someone could post (trdcrdkid?) the original ad for us to compare, if it was pictured.

http://t206resource.com/Images/Wagner/42.jpg

Edit: I guess if you were going to have half a Wagner, it at least has his face and name.

[swarmee]

Just ran the #00000002 Cert in the PSA database and it doesn't come up. So it must have been cracked out with the flip returned.

[Bruinsfan94]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Just ran the #00000002 Cert in the PSA database and it doesn't come up. So it must have been cracked out with the flip returned.

Just looked that up and I agree, that must be it. I find it odd anyone would risk breaking that out. Must have an interesting back story. Anyone have any guesses as to what its fair market value would be now?