Al Rosen - Mr Mint - Passes

2dueces · #1 02-02-2017, 01:39 PM

In the end it was Rosen who offered big bucks (at the time) for old pieces of cardboard in the 80's. So instead all that material going out with the trash it came to the market place. How many cards in our collections are there because of him? Even if they never touched his hands? Like him or hate him, he helped start the boom.

BeanTown · #2 02-02-2017, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2dueces

In the end it was Rosen who offered big bucks (at the time) for old pieces of cardboard in the 80's. So instead all that material going out with the trash it came to the market place. How many cards in our collections are there because of him? Even if they never touched his hands? Like him or hate him, he helped start the boom.

Disagree. Yes he was a master self promoter and got the best tables right by the front door of shows. He just bullied many unsuspecting people and family members as they walked into a show to sell a loved one's estate. Back in the 80s that was pretty much the only way to do it, other than going to the local card shop as there was no Enet. He used cash as his weapon and used car salesman tactics like if you walk away from me I'll pull my offer. Then pressure people when they should have gone to the next row down to most likely get offers twice as much or at least higher.

Then he would go to his downline like a pyramid scheme of his dealer network to sell everything he bought at a pre determined mark up and the dealers had to buy it all, no matter what it was. I think the mark up I heard back then was 20 percent. The dealers just had to move the stuff ranging from cheap wax to rare 19th century items. Everyone made tons of money because of the clubbing the original seller or estate took when they unfortunately took the first offer and was bullied into selling. I think all the cards in the hobby that we collect still would have made it into our collections as I don't see family members just "throwing" cards in the trash.

1952boyntoncollector · #3 02-02-2017, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeanTown

Disagree. Yes he was a master self promoter and got the best tables right by the front door of shows. He just bullied many unsuspecting people and family members as they walked into a show to sell a loved one's estate. Back in the 80s that was pretty much the only way to do it, other than going to the local card shop as there was no Enet. He used cash as his weapon and used car salesman tactics like if you walk away from me I'll pull my offer. Then pressure people when they should have gone to the next row down to most likely get offers twice as much or at least higher.

Then he would go to his downline like a pyramid scheme of his dealer network to sell everything he bought at a pre determined mark up and the dealers had to buy it all, no matter what it was. I think the mark up I heard back then was 20 percent. The dealers just had to move the stuff ranging from cheap wax to rare 19th century items. Everyone made tons of money because of the clubbing the original seller or estate took when they unfortunately took the first offer and was bullied into selling. I think all the cards in the hobby that we collect still would have made it into our collections as I don't see family members just "throwing" cards in the trash.

I dont think you or I would of sold to him that way. People go to pawn shops and ripped off too instead of selling on ebay. Some people dont want to go around and haggle to 4 dealers. Afterall they are at a CARD SHOW. Its not like they didnt have options, seller is to blame for being taken advantage of at a CARD SHOW not the seller

Now if mr mint heard someone died and went to the widow's house unsolicited and got the widow to sell her late husband's T206 collection before she had any outside advise at all thats an example at the polar opposite of buying someone's cards a CARD SHOW

In addition, it appears from your comment the other dealers were 'forced' to buy the cards at set prices but later on said 'everyone made tons of money...." so i not so sure any of these dealers would be complaining...if you forced me to accept a deal in which i would make a nice profit later i know i wouldnt complain..

BeanTown · #4 02-02-2017, 02:51 PM

Good point Jake and agreed the seller should assume liability as well. Pawn shop was a good reference to. I'm a little bias as my one and only time bidding in one of his auctions around 2001. Al screwed me over as I was the only bidder on many high end lots. Then I noticed he shut his auction down earlier than what was advertised. So the next day when I called him to get my winning total he said I'm lucky he will even sell to me for my opening bid and then I made the mistake of asking him how come he shut down the auction early and asked him why am I lucky??? Then he promptly said FU and he doesn't have to explain anything to me and he isn't going to honor any bids as he hung up the phone.

After reading Ryan's post and some other posters expierence with him, I can say that they are not alone in the feeling. He may have become a better person after the Enet came around but I'll never know. Plus, I'm sure he was loved by his close friends and dealer network as I do think he had a big personality that he could apply differently depending on his mood and who he was entertaining.

RIP and Al would as I believe he would approve of this thread because of this motto. "If they are talking good or bad about you, then that's good! When they stop talking about you then you have to worry and rethink your approach." Al was a master self promoter with that theme IMO

1952boyntoncollector · #5 02-02-2017, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeanTown

Good point Jake and agreed the seller should assume liability as well. Pawn shop was a good reference to. I'm a little bias as my one and only time bidding in one of his auctions around 2001. Al screwed me over as I was the only bidder on many high end lots. Then I noticed he shut his auction down earlier than what was advertised. So the next day when I called him to get my winning total he said I'm lucky he will even sell to me for my opening bid and then I made the mistake of asking him how come he shut down the auction early and asked him why am I lucky??? Then he promptly said FU and he doesn't have to explain anything to me and he isn't going to honor any bids as he hung up the phone.

After reading Ryan's post and some other posters expierence with him, I can say that they are not alone in the feeling. He may have become a better person after the Enet came around but I'll never know. Plus, I'm sure he was loved by his close friends and dealer network as I do think he had a big personality that he could apply differently depending on his mood and who he was entertaining.

RIP and Al would as I believe he would approve of this thread because of this motto. "If they are talking good or bad about you, then that's good! When they stop talking about you then you have to worry and rethink your approach." Al was a master self promoter with that theme IMO

The auction issue you are bringing up is entirely a different area i was commenting on. I was commenting about his buying practices you commented on at card shows. I wouldnt be happy if i was treated like you say you were in the 'auctions'

Kenny Cole · #6 02-02-2017, 07:51 PM

Never a fan. But I didn't absolutely detest him like I did the Bruces. RIP and condolences to his family.

drcy · #7 02-02-2017, 08:13 PM

"Kindness is my religion"-- Dali Lama

bbcard1 · #8 02-02-2017, 03:05 PM

There was a time, albeit a brief one, when you could not be stupid enough not to make money on baseball cards. I mean a 50 cent pack could yield a $5 card and there were buyers for that. It was a relatively brief time and Rosen rode the wave.

Buythatcard · #9 02-03-2017, 08:15 AM

I don't think he bullied anyone. He was just an aggressive salesman and he was very good at what he did. He paid sellers what many dealers would not pay.

It's up to the seller to just walk away if they are not happy with the deal. If they can find someone to make a better offer, then its up to them to find that deal.
I have been ripped off many times from dealers but I can't blame them. I have to blame myself for not walking away.

I never met Mr. Mint but I respected what he did. I have never seen anyone do what he did.

ullmandds · #10 02-03-2017, 09:05 AM

i think I have a baseball card of good old Mr Mint somewhere????

1952boyntoncollector · #11 02-03-2017, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

I don't think he bullied anyone. He was just an aggressive salesman and he was very good at what he did. He paid sellers what many dealers would not pay.

It's up to the seller to just walk away if they are not happy with the deal. If they can find someone to make a better offer, then its up to them to find that deal.
I have been ripped off many times from dealers but I can't blame them. I have to blame myself for not walking away.

I never met Mr. Mint but I respected what he did. I have never seen anyone do what he did.

I always find it interesting when i see someone about to sell a card for say $300, and someone else says the seller is getting ripped off but wont make an offer on the card. Its easy to say the someone is getting ripped off if you are arent going to be topping the offer. Same thing in fantasy baseball!

Steve_NY · #12 02-04-2017, 08:25 PM

I heard about Al's passing several days ago and was immediately sad that another one of my competitors is gone.

In the 1970s, Al was just one of us out there trying to make a buck. Back then, he was always a friend who bought from me and sold to me.

Then he created the Mr. Mint persona and hit big-time pay dirt with aggressive marketing. He was a great spokesperson for the hobby and made some spectacular deals.

I mostly have fond memories of our dealings. But do I have stories? Of course I do, but they will also remain as memories. They don't belong here.

It really saddens me that some of you always find that this is the place to air your grievances when it is just too late to make a difference anyway.

My sincere condolences to his family.

Steve S.

Leon · #13 02-05-2017, 08:32 AM

Nice write up, Steve. I have to agree that there is a time and place for everything. When someone passes away is not the time to air dirty laundry, in my opinion.
I only met Al once or twice so only know what has been told. I am sure he had great friends and family just like the rest of us. No doubt, he was a character!! RIP Mr. Mint.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_NY

I heard about Al's passing several days ago and was immediately sad that another one of my competitors is gone.

In the 1970s, Al was just one of us out there trying to make a buck. Back then, he was always a friend who bought from me and sold to me.

Then he created the Mr. Mint persona and hit big-time pay dirt with aggressive marketing. He was a great spokesperson for the hobby and made some spectacular deals.

I mostly have fond memories of our dealings. But do I have stories? Of course I do, but they will also remain as memories. They don't belong here.

It really saddens me that some of you always find that this is the place to air your grievances when it is just too late to make a difference anyway.

My sincere condolences to his family.

Steve S.

steve B · #14 02-05-2017, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_NY

I heard about Al's passing several days ago and was immediately sad that another one of my competitors is gone.

In the 1970s, Al was just one of us out there trying to make a buck. Back then, he was always a friend who bought from me and sold to me.

Then he created the Mr. Mint persona and hit big-time pay dirt with aggressive marketing. He was a great spokesperson for the hobby and made some spectacular deals.

I mostly have fond memories of our dealings. But do I have stories? Of course I do, but they will also remain as memories. They don't belong here.

It really saddens me that some of you always find that this is the place to air your grievances when it is just too late to make a difference anyway.

My sincere condolences to his family.

Steve S.

That's pretty much why I've held off posting for so long. I've mixed feelings about Mr Mint, but it's not the place or time for much of it.

I met him very briefly when he had a table at one of the Halls shows. I was helping out with one of the tables right near his. While my style could best be described as the exact opposite of his (With the exact opposite financial rewards fwiw) Seeing him in action for a few hours and also during the downtime when things were slow was very interesting. He put on a GREAT show! And that was exactly what some people wanted even if they didn't know it. One whole showcase with no cards, just cash, and his own armed guard standing by. But I was close enough to be sort of in on a few conversations during slow times later on, and mostly just listened to him discussing cards with other dealers. What I saw was a guy who really knew his cards and was fairly happy to discuss them with other people who he knew also knew cards.

I also saw a guy who wanted to spend, but only on the right stuff, or for the right deal and who readily referred people to the right dealer for stuff he didn't want. An aspect that I don't think was seen all that often because it was done quickly and quietly. Quick glance, "It's not for me but see X, he'll give you the best offer. " Maybe that was because of the small size of the show, I don't know.

And he was a big part of getting stuff out of attics and into the hobby.

The rest I may have mentioned before, and doesn't really belong here, so maybe another time.

Steve B

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