PWCC and Bid Retractions

[pokerplyr80]

Email Brent the ebay ID and see what he says. They may not have noticed.

[dariushou]

See, i have a problem with that. He's in business of making money and he should be protecting his investment. Not me. It is very easy for him to hire a data guy to data scrape his auctions for this. His policy -- 2nd and 3rd paragraphs are their vague policing strategy...

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=229658

Are they not working with EBAY on this? Has EBAY put in code that does not allow those with over 25 bid retractions to bid on PWCC auctions? How do you stop last second (sniped) shilling with people with bid retractions greater than 25? So is there any policing whatsoever? Not even a data scraper. Based on auctions values that are ending, I would think PWCC is making enough cash. I couldn't imagine coming out with a policy like this in my profession and not being burned at the stake if i did not adequately implement and police it. In fact, i would have the regulators in my biz as soon as any of this non-sense started. I hate regulations, but maybe that's what this industry needs -- someone with some teeth...venting of course but come on.

[botn]

Originally Posted by dariushou

See, i have a problem with that. He's in business of making money and he should be protecting his investment. Not me. It is very easy for him to hire a data guy to data scrape his auctions for this. His policy -- 2nd and 3rd paragraphs are their vague policing strategy...

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=229658

Are they not working with EBAY on this? Has EBAY put in code that does not allow those with over 25 bid retractions to bid on PWCC auctions? How do you stop last second (sniped) shilling with people with bid retractions greater than 25? So is there any policing whatsoever? Not even a data scraper. Based on auctions values that are ending, I would think PWCC is making enough cash. I couldn't imagine coming out with a policy like this in my profession and not being burned at the stake if i did not adequately implement and police it. In fact, i would have the regulators in my biz as soon as any of this non-sense started. I hate regulations, but maybe that's what this industry needs -- someone with some teeth...venting of course but come on.

Oh yeah, that post by Brent was just to make everyone feel better. You didn't actually think that policy, as well as others, would actually be implemented, did you? No consequences for his not following through on any enforcement or at least efforts to enforce policies that protect the buyers. He had 15,000 listings this month and very strong prices throughout. If I were Brent I would not change a thing. Seems to be working very very well for him.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It appears there is no automatic block, from what Brent said.

eBay wide, any user ID that has a high number of bid retractions on the eBay platform will be blocked from participating in PWCC auctions. We believe that the majority of users who abuse the bid retraction tool will cease this behavior. We have to establish a starting point, so to start any user ID we identify that has greater than 25 bid retractions over the last six months will be blocked from participating in PWCC auctions. Any user ID we identify with between 10 and 25 retractions will be notified of our policy and warned. In time, we plan to reduce the allowed number of retractions to 10, and perhaps as low as 5. Note: a user’s bid retraction count is not a statistic we can automatically filter; we appreciate the help of the collecting community in identifying user IDs which show quantities beyond our defined limits.

[D.P.Johnson]

I'm pretty sure ebay allows people to have an unlimited number of accounts. Thus, if someone really, really, really, really, really, really, really wants to shill (ahem...I mean retract their bids), they'll figure out away around any supposed "restrictions"...

[Leon]

If you have a problem start your own business and do as you say. Problem solved.

Originally Posted by dariushou

See, i have a problem with that. He's in business of making money and he should be protecting his investment. Not me. It is very easy for him to hire a data guy to data scrape his auctions for this. His policy -- 2nd and 3rd paragraphs are their vague policing strategy...

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=229658

Are they not working with EBAY on this? Has EBAY put in code that does not allow those with over 25 bid retractions to bid on PWCC auctions? How do you stop last second (sniped) shilling with people with bid retractions greater than 25? So is there any policing whatsoever? Not even a data scraper. Based on auctions values that are ending, I would think PWCC is making enough cash. I couldn't imagine coming out with a policy like this in my profession and not being burned at the stake if i did not adequately implement and police it. In fact, i would have the regulators in my biz as soon as any of this non-sense started. I hate regulations, but maybe that's what this industry needs -- someone with some teeth...venting of course but come on.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Leon

If you have a problem start your own business and do as you say. Problem solved.

Not as easy as it sounds

(I know you know that)

[Brent Huigens]

Good morning. PWCC "data girl" here! Thanks for the post. You are correct that we place blocks on all user IDs that we identify with more than 25 bid retractions in the last 6 months. There is indeed a bidder in the auction you note with more than 25 retractions. I have placed a block on this user ID and have reached out to him/her explaining our policy.

Please note that our policy has almost been in place for six months, which was the time frame we agreed to set the threshold at 25. Soon we will begin reducing the threshold because we feel the bidding community has had enough opportunity to improve their behavior.

As was noted by others in this post, our challenge is that eBay doesn't allow us to restrict bidding based on retraction history; in fact, we have to review each bidder to determine their total number of retractions. We catch many of the bidders with retraction history outside our policy, but we are limited by the tools provided to us by eBay. We greatly appreciate the assistance of many in the bidding community. Please continue to send concerns to either me at betsy@pwccauctions.com or our dedicated email address bidmonitoring@pwccauctions.com.

Finally, yes - eBay is indeed partnering with us in trying to curtail bid retractions. For the first retraction with PWCC, eBay sends a warning email describing the pilot project. The second retraction with PWCC, eBay places a bidding restriction where that user ID can't bid at all on eBay for 14 days. The third retraction results in that user ID being suspended from eBay indefinitely.

Please don't hesitate to reach out with any questions about or feedback on this policy or pilot program.

Thank you!

Betsy Huigens

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by dariushou

See, i have a problem with that. He's in business of making money and he should be protecting his investment. Not me. It is very easy for him to hire a data guy to data scrape his auctions for this. His policy -- 2nd and 3rd paragraphs are their vague policing strategy...

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=229658

Are they not working with EBAY on this? Has EBAY put in code that does not allow those with over 25 bid retractions to bid on PWCC auctions? How do you stop last second (sniped) shilling with people with bid retractions greater than 25? So is there any policing whatsoever? Not even a data scraper. Based on auctions values that are ending, I would think PWCC is making enough cash. I couldn't imagine coming out with a policy like this in my profession and not being burned at the stake if i did not adequately implement and police it. In fact, i would have the regulators in my biz as soon as any of this non-sense started. I hate regulations, but maybe that's what this industry needs -- someone with some teeth...venting of course but come on.

They had said before they will monitor but there is no way for ebay to automatically block bidders with a certain number of retractions. Many members have no problem taking time to complain about problems in our hobby. Is it really too much to ask to send pwcc an email and help them block a dishonest bidder from their auctions?

At least they are trying to do something. Can anyone name 1 other eBay seller or consignment service that does anything to guard against shill bidding or people who retract bids? I cant.

[dariushou]

Ha, if i were to sit down and send emails to PWCC about all of the shills and whatnot going on in their auctions, I wouldn't find time to eat, s**t or sleep. It's not my job to go onto ebay and police PWCC auctions, but when i do see some b.s. I will post it here. I avoid their auctions like no tomorrow unless i want a good laugh.

Are they doing something?? Anyone can say whatever they like, but action is where the beef is. There is no action on their side. None...unless they get caught or i mean someone calls something out. That's total b.s. If you come on here with some big mean policy that is supposed to comfort people into bidding on your auctions then try to be proactive and not reactive!

[Leon]

This might be one of the most stupid (or ignorant) posts I have seen on this board. You either didn't or can't comprehend post #9?

To PWCC- As someone who runs a forum with around 8000 users I will tell you that no matter what you do there will be some idiot who doesn't like it.. Keep doing what you are doing, please. Be vigilant. The hobby supports you...

Originally Posted by dariushou

Ha, if i were to sit down and send emails to PWCC about all of the shills and whatnot going on in their auctions, I wouldn't find time to eat, s**t or sleep. It's not my job to go onto ebay and police PWCC auctions, but when i do see some b.s. I will post it here. I avoid their auctions like no tomorrow unless i want a good laugh.

Are they doing something?? Anyone can say whatever they like, but action is where the beef is. There is no action on their side. None...unless they get caught or i mean someone calls something out. That's total b.s. If you come on here with some big mean policy that is supposed to comfort people into bidding on your auctions then try to be proactive and not reactive!

[jfkheat]

Originally Posted by Leon

This might be one of the most stupid (or ignorant) posts I have seen on this board. You either didn't or can't comprehend post #9?

To PWCC- As someone who runs a forum with around 8000 users I will tell you that no matter what you do there will be some idiot who doesn't like it.. Keep doing what you are doing, please. Be vigilant. The hobby supports you...

I agree. PWCC has hundreds of auctions ending every night with quite a few different bidders in each one. There is no way that they can monitor each and every bidder. The eBay system has nothing to help do this. This is why they ask for people that see suspicious bidding to alert them. If you don't like the way them do this, don't bid. Don't come here and bitch and complain when you see something you don't like.
James

[Peter_Spaeth]

The high bidder on the Mike Trout refractor has 26 retractions. Found this in two minutes looking through the highest price auctions.

Bidder Information
Bidder: l***n( 128Feedback score is 100 to 499)
Feedback: 100%Positive
Item description:
Item Title:
2009 Bowman Chrome Gold Refractor Mike Trout ROOKIE RC AUTO /50 BGS 9.5 (PWCC)
Bids on this item: 1

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 4
Items bid on: 3
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 50% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 26

Sure it's not realistic to monitor every auction. But at the same time it would not take that much effort to check the most expensive auctions or to do a reasonably thorough spot check. Imagine if Ford said, we produce thousands of cars, we can't possibly do quality control. In my opinion if you are serious about a policy, you need to put in some time and effort to enforce it, not just sit back passively and react if someone calls something to your attention.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by jfkheat

I agree. PWCC has hundreds of auctions ending every night with quite a few different bidders in each one. There is no way that they can monitor each and every bidder. The eBay system has nothing to help do this. This is why they ask for people that see suspicious bidding to alert them. If you don't like the way them do this, don't bid. Don't come here and bitch and complain when you see something you don't like.
James

The consignors are the one's that would effectuate change with the help from the buyers. If more people didnt bid on 'shilled' aucitions then the consignors may be dissatisfied with the prices realized which in turn may reduce consignments which in turn may promote policy changes. As long as legit people keep bidding and winning on 'shilled' auctions it will go on. The bidders are to blame period.

Please add 'alleged' before every 'shilled'


In addition, If you win an auction due to the guy above you retracting, i am pretty sure the seller will understand and agree 100% that you can cancel your purchase as well. That would frustrate consignors.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Leon

This might be one of the most stupid (or ignorant) posts I have seen on this board. You either didn't or can't comprehend post #9?

To PWCC- As someone who runs a forum with around 8000 users I will tell you that no matter what you do there will be some idiot who doesn't like it.. Keep doing what you are doing, please. Be vigilant. The hobby supports you...

A big PLUS 1 there! My experiences with PWCC have all been great!

Best regards, Leon,

Larry

[Il Padrino]

Originally Posted by Leon

This might be one of the most stupid (or ignorant) posts I have seen on this board. You either didn't or can't comprehend post #9?

To PWCC- As someone who runs a forum with around 8000 users I will tell you that no matter what you do there will be some idiot who doesn't like it.. Keep doing what you are doing, please. Be vigilant. The hobby supports you...

Leon, as a Mod aren't you supposed to be giving people (you know, the average collector types) a pass? It is important that anyone be able to express their concerns about a hobby issue as it relates to all of us and sometimes things just need to be said. If not then the forum becomes a place where truth can never find its way as long as those that are doing wrong keep the lights on as sponsors...