PWCC Part Deux

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

This is a great point that is often not discussed. I've also noticed this with PWCC as compared to other ebay auctions.

Why would collectors bid one way on PWCC items and another way on everything else?

Inquiring minds want to know ...

jeff

One point not being made is at least PWCC's auction allow for some things to be seen behind the curtain. Do you know anything that goes on with mile high, REA, heritage and the like? You receive ZERO information about the bidders basically. Yes there is no bid retractions it appears. But who knows what goes on with texts. When tens to hundreds of thousands are on the line i cant assume everything is fair to everyone. Just like i dont assume cracker jack cards with no stains on them werent cleaned.

Just saying that people are picking on pwcc but at least you get a little transperacy in their auctions and some information on bidding behavior and you dont have to bid. You have ZERO idea whats going in the other auction houses. I have bid on auctions on ebay by the way and the seller doesnt have the card or halfway through the auction the listing is pulled or the card gets lost in the mail. None of those things ever happened on an pwcc auction in listings i have won.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

One point not being made is at least PWCC's auction allow for some things to be seen behind the curtain. Do you know anything that goes on with mile high, REA, heritage and the like? You receive ZERO information about the bidders basically. Yes there is no bid retractions it appears. But who knows what goes on with texts. When tens to hundreds of thousands are on the line i cant assume everything is fair to everyone. Just like i dont assume cracker jack cards with no stains on them werent cleaned.

Just saying that people are picking on pwcc but at least you get a little transperacy in their auctions and some information on bidding behavior and you dont have to bid. You have ZERO idea whats going in the other auction houses. I have bid on auctions on ebay by the way and the seller doesnt have the card or halfway through the auction the listing is pulled or the card gets lost in the mail. None of those things ever happened on an pwcc auction in listings i have won.

Talk about damning someone with faint praise.

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

One point not being made is at least PWCC's auction allow for some things to be seen behind the curtain. Do you know anything that goes on with mile high, REA, heritage and the like? You receive ZERO information about the bidders basically. Yes there is no bid retractions it appears. But who knows what goes on with texts. When tens to hundreds of thousands are on the line i cant assume everything is fair to everyone. Just like i dont assume cracker jack cards with no stains on them werent cleaned.

Just saying that people are picking on pwcc but at least you get a little transperacy in their auctions and some information on bidding behavior and you dont have to bid. You have ZERO idea whats going in the other auction houses. I have bid on auctions on ebay by the way and the seller doesnt have the card or halfway through the auction the listing is pulled or the card gets lost in the mail. None of those things ever happened on an pwcc auction in listings i have won.

I understand what you're saying about auctions in general but I specifically said eBay auctions. I have the same transparency with other eBay auctions as I do with PWCC. Bidding patterns are typically much different with PWCC. Many, many more bids early in the process. Many, many more bids by those that have a significant number of retractions. Many, many more bids by accounts that only bid (or mostly bid) on PWCC items. Why does this happen?

jeff

[Republicaninmass]

I hear all the time that the auction houses dont know the max bids, it is a type of software. If I ever received an outbid notice, and then went to check the auction and I was th high bidder again, I'd be suspicious.

One time I hit straight bid by accident and called the auction house to have it changed to max bid. They were willing to back up my bid to make me the high bidder and place my max bid.

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

I hear all the time that the auction houses dont know the max bids, it is a type of software.

I've been saying this here and on other boards for a long time. Anyone with some rudimentary SQL skills and experience in database development can find out what the maximum bid is from anyone on any item. Even if there is data level security, some DBA somewhere has admin privileges to find the number.

If you believe auction houses either develop or purchase auction software, and purposely ignore efforts to determine the values in a "MaxBid" type field, you're nuts. But hang tight, as the tooth fairy, Easter Bunny, and Santa Claus will all be coming to your place tonight.

[iwantitiwinit]

I have read some of the threads above but not all of them and don't think it matters much. What I do think matters is that once a card has been graded it has effectively been commoditized. Commoditized in the sense that it might not be widely available but it should be indistinguishable from another graded similarly from the same grading company and therefore is identifiable and SUBSTITUTABLE. SUBSTITUTABLE is the key thing here. It is basic free market tenant that a psa 4 of a certain player is a psa 4 of that player regardless of who the seller is, the laws of economics make those 2 cards equal value.

There is only one way those 2 cards can be worth different amounts and that is if other services have been attached to those cards or they have been exposed to a greater audience of potential buyers. Given that, I feel I don't ever need to read these stories, similar cards should be selling for approximately the same price regardless of who the seller is. If they don't, something has to be occurring during specific auctions for that psa 4 that is not occurring in other auction all else being equal. If that weren't the case, arbitrage would be possible and would occur, that's how things work, period. I'm not talking about any specific seller here I am talking about the process and market dynamics.

In my opinion, something is occurring in certain auctions to garner higher prices for the exact card than in other auctions for that same card.

Can it be anything else?????

[Republicaninmass]

Sure, some people exclude buy it now listings from their searches. Other that that, nothing

[swarmee]

Your premise that all cards in the same grade from the same TPG are worth the same is flawed.

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

It is basic free market tenant that a psa 4 of a certain player is a psa 4 of that player regardless of who the seller is, the laws of economics make those 2 cards equal value.

In my opinion, something is occurring in certain auctions to garner higher prices for the exact card than in other auctions for that same card.

Can it be anything else?????

All PSA 4's (or any grade), are not equal. One only has to look at PSA's grading standards to realize this.

First off, does the card have 50/50 centering, or is it centered 85/15?

Is there a crease in the card, or not?

Is the surface scuffed/scratched, or not?

How bad is any rounding of the corners?

How much of the original gloss remains?

Are the borders clean & white, or are they dirty?

Finally, who is the seller of the card? If on ebay, what is their feedback level? Basically, how reputable are they? I would much rather spend a bit more and deal with a known reputable seller, than take a chance with "Bubba's Auctions".

Steve

[iwantitiwinit]

I was waiting for that response, the premise is not flawed. I am talking about a general population of say psa 4's. While one specific psa 4 might be a bit different from another psa 4 in general they are graded using identified guidelines and fall within a specific framework to be graded a psa 4. That's whats meant by commoditized. Think for instance about cocoa beans one bean might be a bit better than another but still fall within the grade "A" classification . A psa 4 is essentially a psa 4 and if you sell enough of them the quality averages out.

If you can establish that one seller only sells the highest quality cards within that specific stratification of say a psa 4 then you can be right (or it can be viable that they garner higher prices than another seller) but I think to believe that one seller takes the time or rejects other cards that are considered weak for the grade I think is naive despite what they might claim in their descriptions.

Thoughts?