Forum Shopping within grading companies

[swarmee]

Definitely an old grade. What the seller should do is send it back in to PSA and have them refund the difference of what they paid and whatever the card is worth as a PSA 2 (which I would expect it to grade now).

Is the white spot on the front also a tiny paper loss? If so, it might be a 1.5 now at PSA. Does the back actually have paper loss or is it possibly a print defect? There seems to be mild discoloration where paper loss would be, but I don't see any tears.

[irv]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Definitely an old grade. What the seller should do is send it back in to PSA and have them refund the difference of what they paid and whatever the card is worth as a PSA 2 (which I would expect it to grade now).

Is the white spot on the front also a tiny paper loss? If so, it might be a 1.5 now at PSA. Does the back actually have paper loss or is it possibly a print defect? There seems to be mild discoloration where paper loss would be, but I don't see any tears.

You can expand the card fairly large in this link posted earlier.
https://goldinauctions.com/1909_11_T...LOT29129.aspx#

[D. Bergin]

There's TWO obvious spots of paper loss and glue residue on the back. Not tobacco..........glue.

It was obviously soaked out of an album or scrapbook.

I thought I was annoyed when I picked up a 1960 Jim Brown PSA 7 without a scan of the back and found the back centering was like 120/-20 when I had it in hand.

If I spent that kind of money on a PSA5 Cobb, and it showed up looking like that, I'd be furious. Luckily there's a nice back scan on that listing so you can judge for yourself.

That said, I've never sent in a card to a TPG in my life, though I've occasionally bought graded cards, and there is certainly a benefit to their existence.

I've been around long enough to remember the old wild west days of SCD and Card Shows when one dealers NM was another dealers VG was another dealers EX was another dealers GD/VG.

[swarmee]

Thanks. I read about one earlier, but wasn't sure they were talking about the same one. Grading from 20 years ago is a little different than today. Definitely should be sent back by the new owner for a rebate. Nice that it's also a factory 30 card...

[JollyElm]

When thinking about grading companies, you always have to keep one thing in mind. It's a business.

Baseball itself (except for specific things like ground rules at certain stadiums), is governed by universal rules. An out is an out and a home run is a home run, no matter where you are playing. The rules are codified. When an expansion team enters the league, they, too, play by the same exact rules as everyone else.

But that is not the case with grading companies. They do not share standards that fall under universal guidelines. What's an 8 to PSA may not be an 8 to SGC or any other company. They are not grading cards by using the same specific rules, so there will never be uniformity. Quite frankly, graders can do whatever they want and apply their own standards to the task at hand, just like Ford conducts business differently than Chevrolet.

[orly57]

Ford and Chevy CREATE their own product. In the case of grading companies, they EVALUATE an already existing product. And unlike Ford and Chevy, the decisions made by these graders as to the condition of a product could mean tens of thousands of dollars on one card. I didn't mean in my post to imply that they should conduct their businesses identically. I am saying that us collectors are putting too much stock into their opinions by putting too much value on flips. Their divergent grading policies and arbitrary means of valuation was at the heart of my post. It has gotten to the point where we ship cards to particular companies depending on the particular flaw. Trimmed? Send to BVG and cross your fingers. Paper loss? Send to psa. Handcut? Sgc is your company. We are hungrily feasting on their opinions, rather than judging the cards for ourselves. We are paying 200k for a 52 Willie Mays 9 that looks virtually idenntical, and in some cases not as nice, as many 7s or 8s. This Green Cobb was one of many of my observations about the insanity of grade-worship. I, for one, WISH that Cobb were a 2; I would buy it happily at a fraction of the price that it will inevitably sell for.

[irv]

For those that didn't see/read it, I did this little experiment just a short time ago. (These were purchased already graded)
2 were recent/newly graded, which was a surprise to me as I always found older graded to be graded less harsh. From what I have seen lately, PSA has lessened/lowered their standard or they are screwing up bad lately.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=235854

Regardless, none of my cards will be sent to PSA anytime soon.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by orly57

Ford and Chevy CREATE their own product. In the case of grading companies, they EVALUATE an already existing product. And unlike Ford and Chevy, the decisions made by these graders as to the condition of a product could mean tens of thousands of dollars on one card. I didn't mean in my post to imply that they should conduct their businesses identically. I am saying that us collectors are putting too much stock into their opinions by putting too much value on flips. Their divergent grading policies and arbitrary means of valuation was at the heart of my post. It has gotten to the point where we ship cards to particular companies depending on the particular flaw. Trimmed? Send to BVG and cross your fingers. Paper loss? Send to psa. Handcut? Sgc is your company. We are hungrily feasting on their opinions, rather than judging the cards for ourselves. We are paying 200k for a 52 Willie Mays 9 that looks virtually idenntical, and in some cases not as nice, as many 7s or 8s. This Green Cobb was one of many of my observations about the insanity of grade-worship. I, for one, WISH that Cobb were a 2; I would buy it happily at a fraction of the price that it will inevitably sell for.

Well you dont go by the grade on the holder when you bid..so there are probably others like you that wont bid as much due to the paperloss so the card wont get what other 5s would get. We have seen super 3's sell for 2 grades higher as well so i dont think this is such a big deal. Someone that is just buying the number 5 wont be able to sell it to people like you for a price he likes.

Its still better than no grading company. How many returns would there be when a seller says a card is near mint and the buyer upon holding the card argues its only excellent. Would be ridiculous. People already return graded cards as it is but it would be much worse if all cards were raw in regards to returning cards due to not being described accurately

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by orly57

Ford and Chevy CREATE their own product. In the case of grading companies, they EVALUATE an already existing product. And unlike Ford and Chevy, the decisions made by these graders as to the condition of a product could mean tens of thousands of dollars on one card. I didn't mean in my post to imply that they should conduct their businesses identically. I am saying that us collectors are putting too much stock into their opinions by putting too much value on flips. Their divergent grading policies and arbitrary means of valuation was at the heart of my post. It has gotten to the point where we ship cards to particular companies depending on the particular flaw. Trimmed? Send to BVG and cross your fingers. Paper loss? Send to psa. Handcut? Sgc is your company. We are hungrily feasting on their opinions, rather than judging the cards for ourselves. We are paying 200k for a 52 Willie Mays 9 that looks virtually idenntical, and in some cases not as nice, as many 7s or 8s. This Green Cobb was one of many of my observations about the insanity of grade-worship. I, for one, WISH that Cobb were a 2; I would buy it happily at a fraction of the price that it will inevitably sell for.

I'm confused. You're acting like for some reason you disagree with my post, but I'm saying exactly what you're saying. The graders don't use the same standards, so there are always going to be reasons why number-chasing people choose one over the other. And my remark about Ford and Chevy was obviously in regard to the fact that they are both in the same business, yet do things differently (just like grading companies 'do the same thing' but differently). It doesn't matter that they CREATE their own product instead of EVALUATING an already existing product. That has nothing to do with my point.