1952 Topps Set Break by burlssports ~ Break Complete

Leon · #1 04-24-2017, 11:56 AM

If the house wins then no one won. Some set breaks lose money too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I don't participate in set breaks because I am exceedingly unlucky, but the discussion is of some interest.

If I am at a crowded craps table and roll the dice, somebody always wins. Admittedly sometimes it is only the house. In the long run it is always the house.

In a set break the slots are sold by the house and unless the house undervalues the slots, the house always wins again.

The profit margin in both cases is extremely relevant for the participant to consider before either rolling the dice or buying a slot.

The difference between a 2% margin and a 20% margin is ten fold. With the higher margin you will find me in the parking lot a lot sooner, either with empty pockets or a couple of commons in my pocket.

The difference between the two is a matter of semantics.

I would add that you will never see me at a craps table either.

frankbmd · #2 04-24-2017, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

If the house wins then no one won. Some set breaks lose money too.

Leon,

Both scenarios can be considered zero sum games.

X dollars in = X dollars out

If the house winning doesn't "count" to you, then next month there would be no casino.

If a set break loses money (?), then next month there probably will not be another one.

The incentive for both activities is a guaranteed profit margin.

bn2cardz · #3 04-24-2017, 02:26 PM

Ok. My perspective may have changed after doing more research and thinking more.

As mentioned I did equate this to packs of cards, but there may be a thin line of legality here. Even so it was mentioned that the insert cards can be attained through "no purchase necessary" making it seem that even their lawyers knew this was a fine line.

CA (though I don't live there) has specifically come up with a "Grab Bag" law to pertain to this type of issue:

Quote:

Originally Posted by CA PENAL CODE

319.3.
(a) In addition to Section 319, a lottery also shall include a grab bag game which is a scheme whereby, for the disposal or distribution of sports trading cards by chance, a person pays valuable consideration to purchase a sports trading card grab bag with the understanding that the purchaser has a chance to win a designated prize or prizes listed by the seller as being contained in one or more, but not all, of the grab bags.

Of course this is a debate about legality not whether I agree with the law.
Now I know that is just one state, but it does mean that it is at least illegal for a portion of the people reading the board. I would have to do more research to see if any other states have similar laws. Either way I just wanted to state I have now changed my perspective given this new information.

jburl · #4 04-24-2017, 03:51 PM

Hey guys,

I know we've talked about this before, and I've said something similar before. If you're not comfortable with it, certainly don't do it. For what it's worth, here is the way I see set breaks:

1. You are buying a card from a specific set.
2. The value of the card you happen to get determined by a secondary market.
3. Given 1 and 2, I see set breaks like this similarly to what card companies do when they create a product - some cards have higher demand or lower supply (or both), and are therefore worth more on the secondary market.

The difference is that set breakers are not creating the product; they're outsourcing from several decades ago.

This, of course, is all just my opinion. I'm not a lawyer, and I do have skin the game.

P.S. I do give away a spot in each of my breaks. Does that eliminate consideration? I don't know. I feel like it's a fun way to spread the word - if it helps with the consideration piece, then that's great too.

MW1 · #5 04-24-2017, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jburl

Hey guys,

I know we've talked about this before, and I've said something similar before. If you're not comfortable with it, certainly don't do it.

What's "it?" Repeatedly participating in an illegal gambling scheme?

MW1 · #6 04-24-2017, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jburl

Hey guys,

I know we've talked about this before, and I've said something similar before. If you're not comfortable with it, certainly don't do it. For what it's worth, here is the way I see set breaks:

1. You are buying a card from a specific set.
2. The value of the card you happen to get determined by a secondary market.
3. Given 1 and 2, I see set breaks like this similarly to what card companies do when they create a product - some cards have higher demand or lower supply (or both), and are therefore worth more on the secondary market.

The difference is that set breakers are not creating the product; they're outsourcing from several decades ago.

This, of course, is all just my opinion. I'm not a lawyer, and I do have skin the game.

P.S. I do give away a spot in each of my breaks. Does that eliminate consideration? I don't know. I feel like it's a fun way to spread the word - if it helps with the consideration piece, then that's great too.

Justin,

Here's the law in your state.

Of importance: "(5) 'Lottery' means the selling of anything of value for chances on a prize or stake..." and "(6) 'Profit' means anything of value in addition to the gambling bet."

Leon:

39-17-503. Gambling promotion.
(a) A person commits an offense who knowingly induces or aids another to engage in gambling...

stlcardsfan · #7 04-24-2017, 04:35 PM

I have participated in set breaks with less than stellar results. I think they are fun and I am all for them.

mikemb · #8 04-24-2017, 05:26 PM

I have participated in many of Justin's set breaks. They are fun and I have added some nice cards to my collection. Justin does a great job in doing the break and there is probably a lot of work he does that goes unseen.

I know going in what I may get or not get. What his profit is or isn't is not relevant.

If you don't like set breaks or your chances or think they are illegal, don't participate.

Mike

mattjc1983 · #9 04-24-2017, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jburl

2. The value of the card you happen to get determined by a secondary market.

This is an interesting point. Most lotteries/casino games are set up with a prize of stated value (trip, car, etc.) or a set dollar amount (which, while subject to inflation/deflation, is reasonably steady).

Trading cards have no stated value, even when they're brand new. It's entirely determined by the resale market, and this can (and does) vary widely compared to cash or a prize which is immediately consumed (e.g. trip, car).

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bobbyw8469 · #10 04-24-2017, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

If the house wins then no one won. Some set breaks lose money too.

I have never seen a set break lose money. Not saying it doesn't happen, but the person running it knows what they paid for the set, and sets the price per card for the break.

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