It is Sickening how badly PWCC Shill Bids!

[Snapolit1]

I listed about 40 items last year with PWCC, didn't shill them, and about 39 of them went for weak prices. Go figure. It's crazy . . .when you look at VCP for my sale cards it was like the prior sale was $496 and mine sold for $183. Go figure.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I listed about 40 items last year with PWCC, didn't shill them, and about 39 of them went for weak prices. Go figure. It's crazy . . .when you look at VCP for my sale cards it was like the prior sale was $496 and mine sold for $183. Go figure.

And I am guessing yours did not have 27 bids after two hours either...

[Snapolit1]

Was reading one set of auction rules recently and it stated that shilling an auction is a violation of a federal crime. I don't know what that law would be. If true, maybe someone should be asking Brent whether he is forwarding on disclosed fraud to his local US Attorneys office.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Was reading one set of auction rules recently and it stated that shilling an auction is a violation of a federal crime. I don't know what that law would be. If true, maybe someone should be asking Brent whether he is forwarding on disclosed fraud to his local US Attorneys office.

It can be considered a violation of the Sherman anti-trust Act, it is also fraud and if you are in one state and the item is for sale in another that's Federal.

[pow323]

I bid on a card from PWCC just for the heck of it. Within an hour it was bid up just past my bid and now it is just sitting there with the same bid. Do you think I am going to bid on it again? HA HA!! So what does that tell you???

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I listed about 40 items last year with PWCC, didn't shill them, and about 39 of them went for weak prices. Go figure. It's crazy . . .when you look at VCP for my sale cards it was like the prior sale was $496 and mine sold for $183. Go figure.

Thats crazy.

[pawpawdiv9]

Crazy. ^^^
I just had my 1st experience with PWCC...won't no more.
I was expecting to fetch more than I could on my own. Might of as gave the T206 Cobb away.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Thats crazy.

My PWCC auction closed at 1130pm on 11/4, the night of the last presidential election. I've bored everyone on the board with my bitching. When I complained to Brent he said me an inane response about I should be happy, everyone was at home. Yep, sure dude. Whatever. Maybe I will be lucky enough to have my next one with you close when there is a nuclear attack underway. Don't insult my intelligence. Since then I've listed six figures of items since with LOTG, Brockelman, and others. Live and learn.

Bottom line: If you are not going to commit fraud or have others do it their auctions get sub par results.

What are they doing that you can't do yourself? They do some 20 second write up and mail it.

[cardsnstuff]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

My PWCC auction closed at 1130pm on 11/4, the night of the last presidential election. I've bored everyone on the board with my bitching. When I complained to Brent he said me an inane response about I should be happy, everyone was at home. Yep, sure dude. Whatever. Maybe I will be lucky enough to have my next one with you close when there is a nuclear attack underway. Don't insult my intelligence. Since then I've listed six figures of items since with LOTG, Brockelman, and others. Live and learn.

Bottom line: If you are not going to commit fraud or have others do it their auctions get sub par results.

What are they doing that you can't do yourself? They do some 20 second write up and mail it.

I agree

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I listed about 40 items last year with PWCC, didn't shill them, and about 39 of them went for weak prices. Go figure. It's crazy . . .when you look at VCP for my sale cards it was like the prior sale was $496 and mine sold for $183. Go figure.

I think we've mostly all figured it out...

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I think we've mostly all figured it out...

Yes, he shilled that last lot!

[ullmandds]

there were a few 51 mantle rookies in the 3-4 range ended last night w/pwcc...and I was surprised how low they sold for...definitely not shilled so it would seem!

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

there were a few 51 mantle rookies in the 3-4 range ended last night w/pwcc...and I was surprised how low they sold for...definitely not shilled so it would seem!

The psa 3 and 5 were both well centered, and sold above the highest reported sale on vcp. The other two were way off center and sold below averages. This should not come as much of a surprise.

[Rookiemonster]

Not trying to defend PWCC by any means but it is up to the collector to bid accordingly. Like the game Leon so graciously has on the board. Take a guess at the price of the card/items you want. Then when it's time to bid don't bid more then that. That's what I do haha sure you lose some , but you also win some. For me getting that card at the price I like is just as important as the card to me.

Know your cards! Know your prices ! Snipe!snipe! snipe! And that should put a end to YOU being shilled.

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

Know your cards! Know your prices ! Snipe!snipe! snipe! And that should put a end to YOU being shilled.

No. It will not.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

The psa 3 and 5 were both well centered, and sold above the highest reported sale on vcp. The other two were way off center and sold below averages. This should not come as much of a surprise.

Agreed...centering is boss of the 4 traits. Surface and edges is like a red headed stepchild.

[Batpig]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

The psa 3 and 5 were both well centered, and sold above the highest reported sale on vcp. The other two were way off center and sold below averages. This should not come as much of a surprise.

Stop using facts.

Is there shilling with PWCC? Yep, but there's shilling with every AH. Sub par results are not a given if no shilling is involved. My last consignment with PWCC included about 100 cards, and I estimated a 9k hammer altogether. I didn't shill any of them, and the total hammer was over 11k.

Having said that, there's things I would never auction with Brent. I tested out some modern unopened and was not happy at all with the results. I've been handling those myself ever since.

I'm actually surprised I've never seen anyone complain about his shipping fees. I wouldn't be surprised if a large amount of his profits come from shipping.

[darwinbulldog]

Obviously if you don't bid more than you're willing to pay you won't have to pay more than you're willing to pay. The problem is that the prices we are willing to pay are, quite reasonably, a function of what others have paid for the same or similar cards in the past. And what others have paid for the same or similar cards in the past is a function of the prevalence of shilling in the hobby.

[T206Collector]

Do you know why every "timed" auction house other than eBay....

(1) requires an initial bid prior to a standard closing time; and

(2) extends its auction based on bids after the standard closing time?

Because they are consignor-friendly policies that drive prices up, and they do not want to encourage sniping, which keeps prices low.

If you are bidding in an eBay auction with a fixed end time, why would you make an "initial bid" prior to closing time? Are you intentionally trying to give more money to the consignor?

In this respect, eBay is one place where shilling shouldn't work. If everyone snipes, the shiller has a tougher time pegging his "shill snipe" high enough to lose, but low enough to drive prices up illegitimately.

Indeed, if sniping was good for shilling behavior, don't you think eBay would endorse a sniping service, or provide one internally? The fact that they don't tells you everything you need to know about why sniping is good for buyers and bad for consignors and shillers.