Final game of the World Series. Johnson, Mathewson, Cy Young?

Peter_Spaeth · #1 06-07-2017, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

Postseason ERA
Johnson 2.52
Mathewson 0.97

I'll take Matty.

Small sample size, plus Johnson's was at the very end of his career.

rats60 · #2 06-07-2017, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Small sample size, plus Johnson's was at the very end of his career.

In 1924 Wajo was the same age as Jack Morris when he threw 10 scoreless innings in game 7 of the 1991 World Series. If a nonHoF pitcher can be clutch, why should we expect the same from one of the greatest in his most important moment of his career?

Peter_Spaeth · #3 06-07-2017, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

In 1924 Wajo was the same age as Jack Morris when he threw 10 scoreless innings in game 7 of the 1991 World Series. If a nonHoF pitcher can be clutch, why should we expect the same from one of the greatest in his most important moment of his career?

I find it unpersuasive to make an argument based on one game by one pitcher.

rats60 · #4 06-07-2017, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I find it unpersuasive to make an argument based on one game by one pitcher.

Yet you are asking for a pitcher to pitch one game. If I want someone to pitch one game on the biggest stage, I want the guy who has done it, Matty. If we are talking a season or career, Wajo.

Peter_Spaeth · #5 06-07-2017, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

Yet you are asking for a pitcher to pitch one game. If I want someone to pitch one game on the biggest stage, I want the guy who has done it, Matty. If we are talking a season or career, Wajo.

By that measure you should take Don Larsen.

Seriously, I think the best predictor of how a guy is going to pitch in one game is his career, not a small sample of WS games. and certainly not very late in his career Now if a pitcher has pitched enough playoff/WS games that he seems to have an issue, like Kershaw, I could see not using that metric.

rats60 · #6 06-07-2017, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

By that measure you should take Don Larsen.

Seriously, I think the best predictor of how a guy is going to pitch in one game is his career, not a small sample of WS games. and certainly not very late in his career Now if a pitcher has pitched enough playoff/WS games that he seems to have an issue, like Kershaw, I could see not using that metric.

How is 89 innings a large enough sample size and 50 insufficient? As far as Larsen, if he had an ERA under 1 for all his post season appearances, he would be in the discussion, but he doesn't. Some pitchers pitch better under pressure, some don't and some pitch much worse.

Strongly disagree about great career equating to pitching in the clutch. Kershaw is the prime example of that. The two are not the same. The regular season is completely different than the World Seried where every game is against a great team. For a pressure game, pick the guy who can handle the pressure, not the guy who is slightly better in the regular season, but doesn't excel under pressure.

And what does late in the career have to do with anything? In 1924 Wajo led the AL in wins, ERA, Ks, games, shutouts, win %, Whip, Fip, etc and was the AL MVP. That is just a lame excuse.

Peter_Spaeth · #7 06-08-2017, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

How is 89 innings a large enough sample size and 50 insufficient? As far as Larsen, if he had an ERA under 1 for all his post season appearances, he would be in the discussion, but he doesn't. Some pitchers pitch better under pressure, some don't and some pitch much worse.

Strongly disagree about great career equating to pitching in the clutch. Kershaw is the prime example of that. The two are not the same. The regular season is completely different than the World Seried where every game is against a great team. For a pressure game, pick the guy who can handle the pressure, not the guy who is slightly better in the regular season, but doesn't excel under pressure.

And what does late in the career have to do with anything? In 1924 Wajo led the AL in wins, ERA, Ks, games, shutouts, win %, Whip, Fip, etc and was the AL MVP. That is just a lame excuse.

Fair enough on the late in the career if Johnson was still in peak form, but I still think the sample size is too small to draw any conclusions here. At what point does it get large enough? I don't know, honestly, but a handful of games doesn't seem enough to me.

howard38 · #8 06-07-2017, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Small sample size, plus Johnson's was at the very end of his career.

Also the live ball era vs. the dead ball era.

T206Collector · #9 06-07-2017, 08:46 PM

Matty
1905 World Series

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