Ode to Pre-War Football Cardboard

[cfhofer]

The forward pass is a fun topic to discuss. It became legal after the 1905 season. However the first team to build their offense around the forward pass was the 1906 St. Louis University team, coached by Eddie Cochems. The 1906 squad was undefeated 11–0, led the nation in scoring, and outscored opponents by a combined score of 407 to 11. The open game didn't catch on in the east until 1914, with Notre Dame and Yale (under Frank Hinkey).

In 1952, Dorais himself tried to set the record straight telling the United Press that "Eddie Cochems of the St. Louis University team of 1906 deserves the full credit." Certainly Cochems considered himself the 'Father of the forward pass'. See the attached signed note below.

[revmoran]

Of course, Mark has the signed document!

[jefferyepayne]

Nice item, Mark!

jeff

[cfhofer]

Thanks guys. Speaking of football firsts - When was the huddle first utilized? I've read some reports that in 1894 Paul Hubbard of Gallaudet College, a Washington DC based college for the deaf, created the 'huddle' to prevent opposing teams from seeing their signs. Another report states Univ of Penn created the huddle in 1894 to aid Alfred E Bull, their star center, who was deaf.

I found the photo posted below tossed between the pages of a prominent Yale football player's scrapbook, who played end for the Bulldogs from 1892-94. I didn't think much of it at first but could this be the earliest photo of a football 'huddle'? I can't identify any of the players but coach Mike Murphy is in the center.

Any thoughts?

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by cfhofer

Thanks guys. Speaking of football firsts - When was the huddle first utilized? I've read some reports that in 1894 Paul Hubbard of Gallaudet College, a Washington DC based college for the deaf, created the 'huddle' to prevent opposing teams from seeing their signs. Another report states Univ of Penn created the huddle in 1894 to aid Alfred E Bull, their star center, who was deaf.

I found the photo posted below tossed between the pages of a prominent Yale football player's scrapbook, who played end for the Bulldogs from 1892-94. I didn't think much of it at first but could this be the earliest photo of a football 'huddle'? I can't identify any of the players but coach Mike Murphy is in the center.

Any thoughts?

My first inclination is that this is just a coaching session or pep talk during a practice. Doesn't look like a football huddle in a game to me as the coach is involved. Or a timeout / water break?

Still a really, really cool image, Mark!

jeff

[cfhofer]

Jeff,

Yea, that is my guess too. Plus one of the players is holding the ball. Doubt that would occur in a game.

[revmoran]

I think you guys cracked the case but still a very cool photo.

[jefferyepayne]

Was fortunate to pick up this card recently. Spalding's come in Bio backs, Ad backs, and blank backs. I've never seen an Ad Back of Friedman before. Has anyone else?





jeff

[jefferyepayne]

What, no love for the Spalding Friedman? Thought this thread would blow up!

jeff

[jefferyepayne]

I've always loved the Wheaties box cuts from the 30s and wrote an article on them (with Joe Squires) a while back for Gridiron Greats Magazine. Picked up this really nice 13x10 Wheaties point of sale display piece recently that is pretty rare. Most of the player images on it are the same as the Wheaties 1934 All-Americans box cuts.



Here are a couple of postcards of Carlisle football players who played with Thorpe.



Early 1910s image of Emil Hauser who also played at Oregon.



1920s image of Gus Welch who was Thorpe's QB at both Carlisle and Canton.

Last but not least, 1908 original photo of Thorpe.



jeff

[Angyale]

St Boneventure and Colby

Angyale

[cfhofer]

Hey guys,

I was going through the 1887 Yale Pot-Pourri (yearbook) and noticed this photo of the 1886 Yale football team. George Alvin Watkinson's photo was altered on this team photograph too (bottom right). Watkinson was considered one of the best football players in the country in 1885 and 86. He came down with an illness prior to the last game of the 1886 season against Princeton. Although he played well he died a few weeks later. I wonder if the individual in the photo was just a stand-in all along. Any thoughts?


Here is my team photo (also altered) along with a single photo of Watkinson from my 1889 Pach Yearbook.

[revmoran]

Here's the picture from Intercollegiate Football 1869-1934 - not sure if that's a different person front right

[cfhofer]

Thanks Rev. Tough to tell if he is the same guy, but I think it is (see below). Both team photos were taken at the same sitting. I once thought it was William Graves, but I'm wrong. Any idea who that is? He definitely wasn't a starter. Couldn't be too thrilled that his photo was being covered up.

[revmoran]

same body and hands



different head

[cfhofer]

Spot on Rev. I wonder who the guy on the left is? I think he is the same guy who was covered up on my 1886 team photo (back row, fifth from the right). You can see that Watkinson's head was glued onto that photo too.

[revmoran]

Here is the photo from The Yale Football Story by Tim Cohane

[cfhofer]

Thanks Rev. Very interesting. Clearly that isn't Watkinson.

[jefferyepayne]

Quite a mystery, guys! I hope you figure it out.

jeff

[revmoran]

George Robert Carter was a lettermen from 1886 who is not listed as being in the 1886 picture. He is listed in the 1887 picture standing next to Corbin - he might be our man. A Major in WW I he was later Governor of Hawaii

[cfhofer]

Rev,

I think Carter is labeled as "Reynolds" in the 1886 photo you posted (from Cohane's book). In my altered photo I think Carter is sitting down in front of Corbin. Both team photos were taken the same day.

[revmoran]

Camp's Yale Her Campus, Classrooms and Athletics also lists an S. B. Morison '90 as a Y man in football in 1886. Yale Football Y Men also identifies a letterman named George Grant Mason - don't know who Monson is in Cohane's photo - neither the Camp book nor the Yale Football Y Men have that name. Maybe our mystery man is Morison or Mason.

[cfhofer]

Rev,

You could be on to something. I don't have individual photos of either those guys to compare. I have a yearbook with the 1890 football team, which has the Morison brothers. SB has a mustache in it though. I'll try to post a scan of it later today.

[cfhofer]

Hey Guys,

Picked up a fantastic 1889 Yale Pach Bros album from a member of this forum (thanks Mike). These photos are from the Sheffield Scientific School and are a great compliment to the Yale College album.

William Charles Wurtenburg '89S (quarterback photo and senior portrait)



Charles Otis Gill '89 and Frederick William Wallace '89


Amos Alonzo Stagg '88


Cheers

Mark

[cfhofer]

For those who collect 1894 Mayo Football Cards and/or interested in the Yale Skull & Bones, you may get a kick out of an item from our Hinkey Archive recently posted on www.frankhinkey.com. Check it out!

Below is a direct link to our Vault page.

Cheers

Mark
https://www.frankhinkey.com/The-Vault.php

[cfhofer]

Rev,

I've attached senior pics of William Graves and Samuel Morison. I don't think our mystery guy is either. I'm going to the Yale Archives later this summer to solve our mystery.

Full disclosure: These photos are not from my collection. They come from a beautiful 1891 Skull & Bones album available for purchase on Abebooks.com. Price is a bit steep though ($6500).

Cheers

Mark

[jefferyepayne]

Posted this in a Wheaties thread on the main forum but it got no love from the baseball guys. Recently turned over the items in my display case and made it all about vintage Wheaties football.

Check it out and let me know what you think.







jeff

[Duluth Eskimo]

That's a great display and some of those are really tough.

[jefferyepayne]

Thanks for checking my display out, Jason.

Yep, some of the Wheaties panels are really tough. I'm still missing a few that I've been searching for for almost a decade now.

Also trying to upgrade them all to full box backs that include the Wheaties tab at the bottom. That's pretty challenging too!

jeff

[cfhofer]

Beautiful collection Jeff! Those Wheaties cards are super tough. I really like the way you have them displayed too. What do you think about draping some black or brown felt over the cardboard boxes in back?

Curious...What is the football of on top?

Mark

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by cfhofer

Beautiful collection Jeff! Those Wheaties cards are super tough. I really like the way you have them displayed too. What do you think about draping some black or brown felt over the cardboard boxes in back?

Curious...What is the football of on top?

Mark

That's exactly what I plan to do, Mark. Just haven't found the right material yet to do so. Also looking to get the glass shelf that belongs on the left put back in so I can use it when I want too.

The football isn't actually related to Wheaties. It's a Wilson Red Grange ball from 1920's signed and dated by Grange.







These footballs came in this box:



jeff

[cfhofer]

That is a great football Jeff. Nice early signature of Grange too. Museum quality stuff. Thanks for sharing.

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by cfhofer

That is a great football Jeff. Nice early signature of Grange too. Museum quality stuff. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks Mark. Appreciate the feedback. The football was signed at a theater from the inscription. I wonder whether it was a premier or something. Otherwise why would someone bring a football for him to sign?

It doesn't look like any of Grange's movies came out in 1929 but perhaps this was the first showing of one of his previous movies at this theater. Who knows?

jeff

[cfhofer]

Jeff,

Any idea where that theater was? If you can identify the theater maybe we can track down a local newspaper article from that day.

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by cfhofer

Jeff,

Any idea where that theater was? If you can identify the theater maybe we can track down a local newspaper article from that day.

Says "Iowa Theater" on the inscription. I did some research on it a while back. It may be the Iowa Theater still located in Madison County, IA as its history says its been around since the 1800s. But the name is so common that I don't know this for sure. There are a couple of other existing Iowa Theaters in the state of Iowa too.

Couldn't find any reference to Grange being anywhere on 1/21/29 but am not an expert at digging through newspaper archives.

jeff

[revmoran]

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by revmoran

Wow, your research skills are second to none, Mike! Which newspaper archive service do you use?

jeff

[revmoran]

newspapers.com for that one

[cfhofer]

Great detective work Rev! Mystery solved.

[clamendo]

How many different do you have? which are you missing...


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[mmier118]

Wow on the wheaties display and the Grange football, I need a dentist I think I chipped a tooth when my jaw hit the floor.

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by clamendo

How many different do you have? which are you missing...
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Missing three. Any doubles, Carl? Anybody else? Would love to finish these sets.

1934 Wheaties All-Americans:
Dixie Howell
Williams Sheperd

Six Man Football:
Ossie Solem

Originally Posted by mmier118

Wow on the wheaties display and the Grange football, I need a dentist I think I chipped a tooth when my jaw hit the floor.

Thanks Mike. Appreciate the feedback.

jeff

[clamendo]

No dups, it took me a long time too. I tried to get them with full borders so SGC would give them a numerical grade.


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[clamendo]

Originally Posted by clamendo

No dups, it took me a long time too. I tried to get them with full borders so SGC would give them a numerical grade.


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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jefferyepayne]

Great stuff, Carl. I was originally going to try and put some 1940-41 Champ Stamps Wheaties in my display case too but ran out of room. Didn't even come close to getting all of my 1935-36 Wheaties items in as it is.

I may redo this case as a 1940s-50s Wheaties display at some point in the future but just enjoying it like it is for now.

What is the one that looks like a football field that you've included with the Big Ten Wheaties set? I've never seen that one before!

jeff

[Big Six]

Where did you find that display cabinet? Any maker mark and how old?


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[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by Big Six

Where did you find that display cabinet? Any maker mark and how old?


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I bought it from an elderly gentleman who said he purchased it when a old local drug store was going out of business about 40 years ago. It is really, really heavy and the glass is thick. It has an old push button light switch on the back but no lights were attached. I plan to put lights in the display case some day and hook back up the old fashion push button switch to use them.

No maker mark on it that I can find.

jeff

[Big Six]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

I bought it from an elderly gentleman who said he purchased it when a old local drug store was going out of business about 40 years ago. It is really, really heavy and the glass is thick. It has an old push button light switch on the back but no lights were attached. I plan to put lights in the display case some day and hook back up the old fashion push button switch to use them.



No maker mark on it that I can find.



jeff

Thanks...be sure to use LED lights when you're wore it so stuff also want fade. Great display (and cards, too)!


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[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by Big Six

Thanks...be sure to use LED lights when you're wore it so stuff also want fade. Great display (and cards, too)!


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Will do, Matt. Thanks for the advice!

jeff

[clamendo]

It's a football field, maybe part of the Big 10 Football game, but I found it included in a collection with the others I have depicted


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