PWCC 10 Retraction Rule

Aquarian Sports Cards · #1 06-22-2017, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

I agree Peter, so why do we keep beating the PWCC issues to death? Jeff L said a few years ago that this activity was illegal. So why doesn't anything get done about it? Forget Ebay, they don't give a shit...Is there any group of people that will simply say enough is enough and do something about it? If no, why keep talking about it with no resolve??

It's a little tougher legally then you might think. According to the UCC a bid isn't a contract until the hammer comes down (or any repeated, recognized way of calling an item sold) so until that time you have a legal right to retract your bid, even in a live auction. That being said the law doesn't make fraud, such as puffing or shilling, legal.

Peter_Spaeth · #2 06-22-2017, 06:51 PM

Scott you are wrong, here's the cliffnotes version.

"In an absolute auction, the seller has agreed to sell for the highest bid, regardless of the amount offered. The role of the auctioneer is to ratify the contract formed between the buyer and the seller. ... Bids above the reserve are binding, with the high bid ratified by the auctioneer when he declares the item sold."

Aquarian Sports Cards · #3 06-22-2017, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Scott you are wrong, here's the cliffnotes version.

"In an absolute auction, the seller has agreed to sell for the highest bid, regardless of the amount offered. The role of the auctioneer is to ratify the contract formed between the buyer and the seller. ... Bids above the reserve are binding, with the high bid ratified by the auctioneer when he declares the item sold."

I don't feel that disagrees with what I said. The high bid is only ratified when the item is declared sold. Until that time bids are retractable. I am on vacation, but I will pull my copy of the UCC and share the section I'm talking about when I get home.

Peter_Spaeth · #4 06-22-2017, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I don't feel that disagrees with what I said. The high bid is only ratified when the item is declared sold. Until that time bids are retractable. I am on vacation, but I will pull my copy of the UCC and share the section I'm talking about when I get home.

It's binding once you place it. Otherwise how could an auction function? Think of a live auction, it would be a circus and rife with fraud.

Peter_Spaeth · #5 06-22-2017, 07:57 PM

Scott it's 2-328 of the UCC. I am trying to figure out how it works, I confess I was not aware of it previously. One thing that I am reading in commentary is that if someone does retract, then ALL bids are gone, that does not reinstate the next highest bidder. WTF. Edit to add that's right in the statute:

a bidder's retraction does not revive any previous bid

Aquarian Sports Cards · #6 06-22-2017, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Scott it's 2-328 of the UCC. I am trying to figure out how it works, I confess I was not aware of it previously. One thing that I am reading in commentary is that if someone does retract, then ALL bids are gone, that does not reinstate the next highest bidder. WTF. Edit to add that's right in the statute:

a bidder's retraction does not revive any previous bid

Yup, that's the section. We covered it extensively. From an auctioneers perspective we decided you give all previous bidders the option of keeping their bids in force or you can choose to start the item over. There is also nothing to stop you from removing that bidder who retracted, or just "not seeing" his bids

Peter_Spaeth · #7 06-22-2017, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Yup, that's the section. We covered it extensively. From an auctioneers perspective we decided you give all previous bidders the option of keeping their bids in force or you can choose to start the item over. There is also nothing to stop you from removing that bidder who retracted, or just "not seeing" his bids

Something tells me this law is old and does not anticipate a phenomenon such as an ebay auction. I wonder, too, if the seller/auction house can contract around it, but I am too lazy to research it right now. Most likely not. So according to the language, as the auctioneer is saying going once, going twice, I can shout out I retract and the whole auction is gone. Similarly, when someone retracts on ebay, that should wipe out the whole auction to that point if ebay were following the law. Merits further research.

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