Ty Cobb Card Market?

[Westside]

What are everybody's thoughts on how hot the Ty Cobb card market is? Is this something that will continue for long term? Is it about to end? Is there going to be a correction in the prices? What are everybody's thoughts?

[wondo]

I've been able to buy some of Cobb's offbeat cards for, what I thought, were very reasonable prices. I picked up a E253 and a T202. Not sure about the stratospheric early postcards.

[sterlingfox]

The T206s will definitely be getting a correction. $14,400 for a PSA 3 Green portrait is ridiculous!

[jb217676]

I think the tough Ty Cobb postcards will keep increasing in demand/price. Lot of people want them, so few out there.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by sterlingfox

The T206s will definitely be getting a correction. $14,400 for a PSA 3 Green portrait is ridiculous!

There are just so many - I tend to agree. But people who pay these prices are unlikely to be auctioning them off any time soon I would guess.

[pherbener]

Originally Posted by sterlingfox

The T206s will definitely be getting a correction. $14,400 for a PSA 3 Green portrait is ridiculous!

The price was crazy but that was the nicest 3 I've ever seen!

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by pherbener

The price was crazy but that was the nicest 3 I've ever seen!

+1

[Rhotchkiss]

$14k+ is definitely way healthy for a 3 (anyone wanna buy my 6 for $35k?), but it does continue a trend I have been noticing - buying the card instead of the grade. A gorgeous 51 bowman mantle SGC 4 went for a ton last night, but it looks nicer than many 6's I have seen. And look what the yellow Ruth goudey 6 went for - very high for a 6 but great looking card

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

$14k+ is definitely way healthy for a 3 (anyone wanna buy my 6 for $35k?), but it does continue a trend I have been noticing - buying the card instead of the grade. A gorgeous 51 bowman mantle SGC 4 went for a ton last night, but it looks nicer than many 6's I have seen. And look what the yellow Ruth goudey 6 went for - very high for a 6 but great looking card

I was bidding on that 51B Mantle specifically because of the great centering and eye appeal, but it went much higher than I was hoping. Look how it went for more than double the price of the PSA 4 Mantle, which was blurry and O/C. It's good to see that collectors are at times looking past the label and actually recognizing that some cards look a whole lot better than others of the same grade.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I was bidding on that 51B Mantle specifically because of the great centering and eye appeal, but it went much higher than I was hoping. Look how it went for more than double the price of the PSA 4 Mantle, which was blurry and O/C. It's good to see that collectors are at times looking past the label and actually recognizing that some cards look a whole lot better than others of the same grade.

Agree! It seems that perhaps collectors are maturing a bit in that regard...paying top prices for nice cards in mid grade regardless of the # or Grader on the flip.

[Econteachert205]

If the stock market, especially tech stumbles, watch as people puke up cards left and right. Not saying this will happen.

[pherbener]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I was bidding on that 51B Mantle specifically because of the great centering and eye appeal, but it went much higher than I was hoping. Look how it went for more than double the price of the PSA 4 Mantle, which was blurry and O/C. It's good to see that collectors are at times looking past the label and actually recognizing that some cards look a whole lot better than others of the same grade.

I was bidding on it too. I was hoping for around 10K...... not so much!!

[jthorst75]

What sale was this green Cobb at $14,400? I would like to see how good it really is.

[3-2-count]

[jthorst75]

Wow. Seems like a high premium for perfect centering. Nice result!

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by pherbener

I was bidding on it too. I was hoping for around 10K...... not so much!!

I was thinking around 10K too, but living in NY I also have to figure sales tax into the equation. So I am at around a one increment disadvantage to bidders in tax free states.

And that T206 green Cobb looks like it should have been graded a 5. Why do so many cards appear to be over or under graded? I just don't get it. Those two VG-Ex 51B Mantles didn't look anything like each other, they were night and day, yet both received the same grade. It makes no sense.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by sterlingfox

The T206s will definitely be getting a correction. $14,400 for a PSA 3 Green portrait is ridiculous!

Perhaps they were buying the card and not the flip??

[sterlingfox]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

Perhaps they were buying the card and not the flip??

I agree, but still, these T206 Cobbs (especially the green portrait) are rising much faster than any other player in the set and there are lots of them out there. At some point, the inflation will stop and prices will correct.

[MR RAREBACK]

Hope green cobbs go down before the national

[mechanicalman]

The Green Cobb 3 went a little higher than I expected, (so much so that I feared there might be some comments on the board.) But it was a "white whale" for me, and it will be a centerpiece of my collection for many years. (I'm not a dealer, flipper, or investor.) I love the Tigers, Ty Cobb, and I value color and centering more than any other aspects of a card. I used to be a "minimum grade" guy, but the many examples of beautiful cards with lower grades shown on this board really changed my thinking to "buying the card." Will I get a strong financial return? Who knows what will happen in 20-30 years. But I will enjoy it immensely over that time.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

The Green Cobb 3 went a little higher than I expected, (so much so that I feared there might be some comments on the board.) But it was a "white whale" for me, and it will be a centerpiece of my collection for many years. (I'm not a dealer, flipper, or investor.) I love the Tigers, Ty Cobb, and I value color and centering more than any other aspects of a card. I used to be a "minimum grade" guy, but the many examples of beautiful cards with lower grades shown on this board really changed my thinking to "buying the card." Will I get a strong financial return? Who knows what will happen in 20-30 years. But I will enjoy it immensely over that time.

Congrats on a nice pickup!

[DeanH3]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

The Green Cobb 3 went a little higher than I expected, (so much so that I feared there might be some comments on the board.) But it was a "white whale" for me, and it will be a centerpiece of my collection for many years. (I'm not a dealer, flipper, or investor.) I love the Tigers, Ty Cobb, and I value color and centering more than any other aspects of a card. I used to be a "minimum grade" guy, but the many examples of beautiful cards with lower grades shown on this board really changed my thinking to "buying the card." Will I get a strong financial return? Who knows what will happen in 20-30 years. But I will enjoy it immensely over that time.

Congrats Sam. It's a beautiful card. I have over-paid on many occasional as well. But as long as you're happy, that's all that matters. You will enjoy that card every time you look at it.

[clydepepper]

Latest Beckett Vintage Collector certainly thinks this is a very strong market for T206 Cobb cards. Ty is the cover boy.

That '3' is definitely the best '3' I've seen...though I usually don't watch that grade very much (as if I can afford my usual '5' - NOT)


I have to wonder if all the new attention to Cobb may also be tied (to some degree) to the new, more flattering Cobb books that have come out.




.

[ullmandds]

beautiful card Sam...and congrats! I hope it is as stunning in hand as it appears to be in scan!!!!

[Sean]

Hey Sam, nice going. That is a really strong three. But the important thing is that you'll be owning it for 20+ years. I've always heard that when it comes to high end cards, you can never pay too much, you can only pay too soon.

In your case that Cobb may or may not be worth that much right now, but it will certainly be worth much more by the time that you're ready to sell.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

beautiful card Sam...and congrats! I hope it is as stunning in hand as it appears to be in scan!!!!

Thanks for the kind words, guys. And Pete, I share your hope. I've found Heritage scans to be a bit "generous" in the past. Truly hoping that's not the case here.

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by jb217676

I think the tough Ty Cobb postcards will keep increasing in demand/price. Lot of people want them, so few out there.

The secret is out on postcards. The minuscule population makes them center pieces for many collections. Here is a little gallery I did awhile ago testing another board members knowledge on them. Any Cobb collector should gladly over pay on any of these in the collage, as I know I would!

[BeanTown]

Second collage of rare Cobb Postcards

[orly57]

Originally Posted by sterlingfox

The T206s will definitely be getting a correction. $14,400 for a PSA 3 Green portrait is ridiculous!

Ridiculous? Should he have bought a Cody Belanger 1/1 refractor with that money? Just curious, if that gorgeous green t206 isn't worth 14k to you, then what card is? If he paid that for an ugly 5, you would praise what a great deal he got. Way to buy a nice CARD Sam. I mean, that's what we collect right???

As for Cobb's resurgence, I think there are several reasons. He is an iconic figure who, along with Ruth, is the face of pre-war baseball cards. Ruth's first card was in 1916, just after the beautiful, colorful T, D, and E cards. Ruth just missed the boat on the last beautiful set of that era, the CJs. Most of Ruth's cards are small black and white caramel cards, redemption coupons, and strip cards. It wasn't until the end of his career that the iconic Goudeys came out. I am not bashing Ruth at all, but Ruth doesn't have cards as beautiful as Cobb (t206, t217, t3, e95, d304, etc). Finally, guys have been dropping big bucks on highgrade Clemente, Rose, Mays, etc, so why shouldn't Cobb's cards go up in value? There are many hall of famers, but very few guys who are larger than life mythological figures. Cobb is one of those guys.

[Bicem]

3 of those are not postcards, can you id them?

[botn]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I was thinking around 10K too, but living in NY I also have to figure sales tax into the equation. So I am at around a one increment disadvantage to bidders in tax free states.

And that T206 green Cobb looks like it should have been graded a 5. Why do so many cards appear to be over or under graded? I just don't get it. Those two VG-Ex 51B Mantles didn't look anything like each other, they were night and day, yet both received the same grade. It makes no sense.

Hi Barry,

Always nice to see you posting. Welcome back. While I agree with you about the inherent flaws in grading and lack of consistency, there is more that can be seen with a card in hand than can be seen even in a massive Heritage scan. It has been my consistent experience that when you see a pic of a card that appears 2 or 3 graders lower than assessed there is a justifiable reason.

Greg

[orly57]

Originally Posted by Bicem

3 of those are not postcards, can you id them?

The 2 Azoras (schedules) and Pinkerton (different backs).

[orly57]

Greg, graders often have their reasons. And those reasons are often legitimate. But don't tell me a hidden crease should count the same as an obvious crease. It does, but it's stupid. So they can grade it the same all they want, but it doesn't make sense. And it certainly doesn't have to enslave collectors into buying cards based on other people's assessments. I will take Sam's 3 over SEVERAL 5's because my cards are meant to please my eyes, not to show off some arbitrary grade.

[Bicem]

Well done, well done. Your Cobb postcard knowledge has officially surpassed JC's.

[Sean]

Jay, is the photo that was used for a couple of those postcards also the photo that was used for the T206 Cobb bat-off-the shoulder card?

[orly57]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Well done, well done. Your Cobb postcard knowledge has officially surpassed JC's.

Lol, thanks. He owns all 3, so I am pretty sure he is aware. And he actually taught me.

[sterlingfox]

If that card is as nice in hand as the scan shows, then it's definitely worth a premium. I'm just saying that this exact same card a few years ago probably wouldn't have even hit 5k. It's the sudden and extreme inflation on the green Cobb that I'm trying to point out.

As a side note, I've never spent even 1k on a card, let alone 14k. As a collector, I value depth in a collection vs just a few standout cards, but that's just me. Most of my tobacco era stuff is VG and under, and I enjoy all of it immensely, even if it doesn't have perfect centering and color. I'd much rather have 14 different Cobb issues (that still present well) worth 1k each than this one amazing green Cobb.

Originally Posted by orly57

Ridiculous? Should he have bought a Cody Belanger 1/1 refractor with that money? Just curious, if that gorgeous green t206 isn't worth 14k to you, then what card is? If he paid that for an ugly 5, you would praise what a great deal he got. Way to buy a nice CARD Sam. I mean, that's what we collect right???

As for Cobb's resurgence, I think there are several reasons. He is an iconic figure who, along with Ruth, is the face of pre-war baseball cards. Ruth's first card was in 1916, just after the beautiful, colorful T, D, and E cards. Ruth just missed the boat on the last beautiful set of that era, the CJs. Most of Ruth's cards are small black and white caramel cards, redemption coupons, and strip cards. It wasn't until the end of his career that the iconic Goudeys came out. I am not bashing Ruth at all, but Ruth doesn't have cards as beautiful as Cobb (t206, t217, t3, e95, d304, etc). Finally, guys have been dropping big bucks on highgrade Clemente, Rose, Mays, etc, so why shouldn't Cobb's cards go up in value? There are many hall of famers, but very few guys who are larger than life mythological figures. Cobb is one of those guys.

[A2000]

Would love to see a picture of the 3 Cobb that sold yesterday in regular lighting and at an angle.

[Directly]

Supply V/S demand

Its interesting the green background prices v/s the supply?

(PSA Pop)--all grades---Green 759--Bat/On 800----Bat/off 931--Red 1830--Total 4,320 cards (40 percent of the graded four are the red variety )


The PSA Pop between the Green v/s Bat/On is = 41 cards graded but a usually a very noticeable difference in prices in any grade--demand?


The PSA Pop report between the Bat/on v/s Red = 1,030 more Red background cards--prices don't reflect supply--demand?


Note: seems some disparity in higher prices with the red background with 899 more graded cards than the Bat/off variety.--demand?


Then add the equation for the back variations and grade scale ?-this becomes even more complicated


With Grading being all over the place within the same grade scale 3's with creases then others same 3 grade and no crease, I agree with eye appeal--I was looking at a PSA 3 Cobb on auction, contacted the seller, and was advised there was a light crease, wasn't noticeable by the posted picture, the bids just kept on going up.


The question, will T206 Cobbs see any price correction boils down to the long time business equation **Supply/Demand** come on--these Antique cards are over 100 years of age, being wonderful in any grade !!!--are graded 1950-60's over priced--let the buyers decide!


I bought a couple T206 Cobbs a few weeks ago and was advised I paid too much--I said who cares they aren't for sale, I liked them--I determined the value for me, not for them!---

[BeanTown]

Sam, great Green Cobb and congrats on the pickup. I had that on my watch list.

Jeff, I should say Postcard size cards.

Orlando, way to answer Jeff's trivia, and wonder if most would know which ones you named.

[botn]

Originally Posted by orly57

Greg, graders often have their reasons. And those reasons are often legitimate. But don't tell me a hidden crease should count the same as an obvious crease. It does, but it's stupid. So they can grade it the same all they want, but it doesn't make sense. And it certainly doesn't have to enslave collectors into buying cards based on other people's assessments. I will take Sam's 3 over SEVERAL 5's because my cards are meant to please my eyes, not to show off some arbitrary grade.

Huh? A crease is a crease for purposes of assessing a card's grade or the impact the existence of a crease has on the eventual grade. A little bit pregnant is still pregnant, no? To think otherwise is deluding oneself, at a minimum. The market has always been incredibly efficient in putting a value on a high grade example over a low grade example and that green Cobb is a perfect example.

I was not making an argument that the green Cobb should sell for what a lower grade example would sell for. Only trying to point out that in spite of great eye appeal, the technical flaws in a card, that we either can or cannot see in a scan (or in person) will impact the grade. Sometimes they are not immediately obvious.

[darwinbulldog]

Some pregnant women have better eye appeal than others.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by orly57

Greg, graders often have their reasons. And those reasons are often legitimate. But don't tell me a hidden crease should count the same as an obvious crease. It does, but it's stupid. So they can grade it the same all they want, but it doesn't make sense. And it certainly doesn't have to enslave collectors into buying cards based on other people's assessments. I will take Sam's 3 over SEVERAL 5's because my cards are meant to please my eyes, not to show off some arbitrary grade.

Sure, if you are buying without regard to resale value. But most of us have at least one eye on resale value and grades do matter.

[orly57]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Sure, if you are buying without regard to resale value. But most of us have at least one eye on resale value and grades do matter.

No. Other people have eyes too. I don't think Sam bid it up to 14k by himself.

[orly57]

Originally Posted by botn

Huh? A crease is a crease for purposes of assessing a card's grade or the impact the existence of a crease has on the eventual grade. A little bit pregnant is still pregnant, no? To think otherwise is deluding oneself, at a minimum. The market has always been incredibly efficient in putting a value on a high grade example over a low grade example and that green Cobb is a perfect example.

I was not making an argument that the green Cobb should sell for what a lower grade example would sell for. Only trying to point out that in spite of great eye appeal, the technical flaws in a card, that we either can or cannot see in a scan (or in person) will impact the grade. Sometimes they are not immediately obvious.

If you are of the school that "a crease is a crease" regardless of visibility or location, or that "paper loss is paper loss" regardless of size or location on a card, then I guess you are right. I also think that sort of rigid mentality lacks any nuance or thought. But I bet it's a lot more fun buying cards when you don't care about pesky things like creases on a face as long as it has the grade you desire. It is, after all, the same as a hidden crease right?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by orly57

If you are of the school that "a crease is a crease" regardless of visibility or location, or that "paper loss is paper loss" regardless of size or location on a card, then I guess you are right. I also think that sort of rigid mentality lacks any nuance or thought. But I bet it's a lot more fun buying cards when you don't care about pesky things like creases on a face as long as it has the grade you desire.

In my opinion it's a higher than usual risk proposition to pay a huge premium over the grade for eye appeal, on a card that's relatively easy to find. I guess we just disagree. In any event, Sam is happy, so it's really more a debate about philosophy than this specific card.

[orly57]

Originally Posted by Sean

Jay, is the photo that was used for a couple of those postcards also the photo that was used for the T206 Cobb bat-off-the shoulder card?

From the collages that JC posted, I think only the novelty cutlery and PC796 (same central images) COULD be the same image used in the t206 bat-off. It is certainly the same image used in his CJ. The hand placement on the bat is similar, but I don't know if the artist on the t206 bat-off went off this image or not. He obviously didn't do a great job since doesn't look much like Cobb as it is! They did a poor job on the bat-on as well. Looks nothing like Cobb when you compare it to the much more accurate depiction of that pose on the T3. Maybe someone on here will know.

[LEHR]

Congratulations Sam. That is by far the best "3" Cobb I've seen. Great card!

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by LEHR

Congratulations Sam. That is by far the best "3" Cobb I've seen. Great card!

Thank you Paul. I really appreciate that.

[Rhotchkiss]

Sam, it's a beautiful card. Enjoy and who cares the price - it's yours and it's great!