1949 Jackies on Memory Lane

[orly57]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

right its just talk when you say 'If i were in the market' Go and buy a sgc 7 for more than the psa 7 goes and then talk about how pretty the card is....talk is cheap

I bought my sgc 5.5 1914 CJ Cobb for more than this psa 5 sold for (last public sale of a psa 5). Is that good enough for you? This is well over your made-up 10k threshold right? And since I'm not buying an sgc or a psa 7 mantle based on a dare from the forum-clown, you will have to take my word for it.
If you had read all the posts, you would know that the SGC Mantle at issue actually outsold that psa mantle, so it appears that a CARD collector actually did put their money where their mouth is.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Cherry picking two cards is not a meaningful comparison, for one thing you are leaving out the market trend between the two points of sale. Look at the overall pattern of SGC.

1/14/17 Memory Lane Image 55 $104,400.00
12/9/16 Goodwin Image 5 $87,846.00
10/30/16 Goldin Image 13 $82,075.00
8/28/16 Heritage Image 5 $89,625.00
5/14/16 Heritage Image 13 $215,100.00

And PSA.

2/4/16 Goldin Image 10 $183,750.00
11/19/16 Heritage Image 12 $155,350.00
11/3/16 Sports Card Link Image 27 $149,513.00
8/28/16 Heritage Image 11 $203,150.00
8/20/16 Memory Lane Image 37 $157,200.00
8/19/16 Mile High Image 20 $164,884.00
6/10/16 Goodwin Image 5 $218,650.00
3/7/16 eBay Image pwcc_auctions s***e 87 $161,100.00

[orly57]

I didn't pick those cards. Someone else did. And I'm not debating that psa gets more than sgc, I am merely addressing the fact that IN CERTAIN INSTANCES it is absurd.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by orly57

I didn't pick those cards. Someone else did. And I'm not debating that psa gets more than sgc, I am merely addressing the fact that IN CERTAIN INSTANCES it is absurd.

I never said you did, did I?

But yeah, I don't dispute that sometimes one sees really stupid prices.

[darwinbulldog]

To be clear, my post was in response to the claim that the PSA card always sells for more than the SGC card in the same grade. The use of "always" is a dare to cherry-pick on the grounds that it isn't actually possible to find a contradictory example.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Fair enough, but I still think the market change is largely responsible for the price gap between these particular cards.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Fair enough, but I still think the market change is largely responsible for the price gap between these particular cards.

It is no coincidence that the highest sales for both PSA and SGC copies were in May-June 2016 when lots of postwar rookies were at their peak and have dropped a lot since then.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by orly57

I bought my sgc 5.5 1914 CJ Cobb for more than this psa 5 sold for (last public sale of a psa 5). Is that good enough for you? This is well over your made-up 10k threshold right? And since I'm not buying an sgc or a psa 7 mantle based on a dare from the forum-clown, you will have to take my word for it.
If you had read all the posts, you would know that the SGC Mantle at issue actually outsold that psa mantle, so it appears that a CARD collector actually did put their money where their mouth is.

the SGC was graded higher...lets see you buy a sgc 5 for what a psa 5 went in similar market conditions.....

i not daring anyone to buy anything....but talk is cheap and theres an awful lot of people saying what they would buy but not actually buying.....there are rare exceptions on every issue of course.... but easy to say and not actually buy. If something happens 9 out of 10 times in terms of price..id rather be on that side than the 1 out of 10 time if actually buying

[orly57]

Yep. The .5 was the deal-breaker for me. Guilty as charged! Perry Mason strikes again.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by orly57

Yep. The .5 was the deal-breaker for me. Guilty as charged! Perry Mason strikes again.

Well if you were going to cherry pick one of the last 10,000 sales to prove a point not sure you would pick one that would not support your point. No one is saying that higher graded SGCs havent sold for similiar or more than lower graded psa graded cards. If the .5 doesnt matter, i will try that on the next ps a 5.5 1952 mantle and tell the guy to sell it at a psa 5 price since the .5 means nothing especially in $10,000+ card. Perry Mason strikes again..

[Pat R]

I still think the exceptional centering and registration is the reason for the higher price on the Mantle not the timeframe of when it was sold.

The Mantle on the left sold for less than half the price at $104,000 on 5-1-16
while the one in question sold for $215,000 on 5-14-16 and I think this Mantle
would bring a higher price than a lot PSA 7's in the same auction.
Mantle SGC 84-7.jpg

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Pat R

I still think the exceptional centering and registration is the reason for the higher price on the Mantle not the timeframe of when it was sold.

The Mantle on the left sold for less than half the price at $104,000 on 5-1-16
while the one in question sold for $215,000 on 5-14-16 and I think this Mantle
would bring a higher price than a lot PSA 7's in the same auction.
Attachment 282164

I would be shocked if the scans didn't have a lot to do with the apparent differences in color and registration. That scan on the right is radioactive for example. Obviously centering is what it is.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I would be shocked if the scans didn't have a lot to do with the apparent differences in color and registration. That scan on the right is radioactive for example. Obviously centering is what it is.

I agree that the centering is the biggest factor Peter and the scan looks like
the colors have been enhanced but it still looks like better registration than
the other example, The same card sold four months later in a Heritage auction for $89,625.

Here are both of them with Heritage scans.
Mantle SGC 84-7.jpg

[orly57]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Well if you were going to cherry pick one of the last 10,000 sales to prove a point not sure you would pick one that would not support your point. No one is saying that higher graded SGCs havent sold for similiar or more than lower graded psa graded cards. If the .5 doesnt matter, i will try that on the next ps a 5.5 1952 mantle and tell the guy to sell it at a psa 5 price since the .5 means nothing especially in $10,000+ card. Perry Mason strikes again..

I didn't cherry-pick an example, but rather, I used a recent example out of my own collection to show you that I do, in fact, put my money where my mouth is. If you can look at my sgc 5.5 compared side-by-side to that psa 5, and your best hypothesis as to why I paid more is because of a half-grade, then I have to question the logic in debating you at all. They say that arguing with fools is like playing chess with a pigeon: no matter how good you are, the pigeon will just shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway.
I will tell you this: if both those CJs were at auction TODAY (and mine magically lost it's immensely important half grade), not only would I pay more for the sgc, but I wouldn't even bid on the Psa.

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

the SGC was graded higher...lets see you buy a sgc 5 for what a psa 5 went in similar market conditions.....

i not daring anyone to buy anything....but talk is cheap and theres an awful lot of people saying what they would buy but not actually buying.....there are rare exceptions on every issue of course.... but easy to say and not actually buy. If something happens 9 out of 10 times in terms of price..id rather be on that side than the 1 out of 10 time if actually buying

So you buy the holder. Congrats. My view has always been why not buy the nicer, or even just equal quality, card graded by SGC and pay less money? Seems like a no-brainer but I collect on a fairly tight budget. If I was in the market for the Jackie's in the OP, I'd purchase the SGC for 20% less than the PSA every time

[Peter_Spaeth]

This should be a permanent sticky for anyone who doubts the power of scans and anyone glibly comparing cards based just on scans.

[orly57]

Peter, the AH scan is all anyone has to go off when they are bidding at auction. That cuts both ways on psa and sgc-graded cards. You bring up a very serious issue about AH's using questionable scans. The SGC 7 mantle looks almost too good to be true, and may well be a product of that practice. But this string began with two cards from the same auction taken presumably with the same scanner. The premise of the post was to compare two equally graded cards, one by sgc and one by psa, and ask if the holder is more valuable than the card even when the SGC is clearly a nicer card.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by orly57

Peter, the AH scan is all anyone has to go off when they are bidding at auction. That cuts both ways on psa and sgc-graded cards. You bring up a very serious issue about AH's using questionable scans. The SGC 7 mantle looks almost too good to be true, and may well be a product of that practice. But this string begun with two cards from the same auction taken presumably with the same scanner. The premise of the post was to compare two equally graded cards, one by sgc and one by psa, and ask if the holder is more valuable than the card even when the SGC is clearly a nicer card.

Right, but the thread (like many) has evolved, I thought Patrick's scans presented an important opportunity to make a point, if a different one than the thread started with. I mean SO many times we see people here making judgments based on juxtaposing scans. "The one on the right has much better color and registration" blah blah. Well I could say that about the two I posted, couldn't I, other than the fact that they are the same card?

More critical thinking needed.

[orly57]

My world has been turned upside-down. I am now critically thinking. I must now make personal visits to all AHs and hold it in-hand before bidding on a card. I can no longer buy on eBay. I can't even admire nice cards anymore, and must assume that Battlefield is now the staff photographer at Heritage. I see the light now. I just wonder how this board can go on if we can't discuss images of cards.