Josh Gibson photo from RMY

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I agree with most of what you guys are saying. Photos are different. But the fair market value of a photo could be a range of 5,000-10,000. A wide range. When someone asks 30,000 for that photo that's unsupported by the market as it currently exists.

The best market indicator I see is what are highly educated people willing to spend on RMY or similar sites. If a photo gets 1500 views and sells for 750, to me that's a pretty good indicator of current market value.

Well said as well. That is true. BUT there are exceptions. Now I know who you are talking about in regards to winning photos at RMY and listing at 10X that and agree that is a bit much, however there are still people that do not know about these photo auctions and are willing to pay up. (so why not) lol

[Forever Young]

Guys... New people come over every day. Not even close to everyone in photos bids in Rmy although they have a great following. Every time a new person gets into photos and is an aggressive buyer photos go up. It's still in its infancy stage. 1500 views on an item on eBay is nothing.... especially when there are psychos like me that look at a photo 50 times if they're interested. I bought a photo in heritage for 5k and was offered 9500 the next day. The examples go on and on.

10x does not translate Into much when you're only talking about a $25 photo to begin with. Each photo is very rare. Buyers are emotional about the image. There's no set price. I don't understand this argument or this post. If you want a photo buy it. If you lose out on the photo don't cry move onto another photo. It's that simple. Someone wants to buy something they can do whatever they want with it. Dealers are part of the hobby and it is there livelihood.. the point is to make money.There is no set price for one particular photo.
There was a Namath photo in Huggins to just sold for $66,000. Everyone at the national thought it would go for 15 to 20. Seasoned dealers that Have been in photos forever thought 10-20 max. A One week eBay auction is not the market. In auction that ended yesterday is not the market. A private sale is not the market. I have provided examples.. examples were provided below within even the same auction. There is really nothing else to say in my mind.. which is SHOCKMAN my I know. HaThis is my last message on this as it's just going around and around and around. I am getting dizzy. happy photo collecting!

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by forever young

guys... New people come over every day. Not even close to everyone in photos bids in rmy. Every time a new person gets in the photos and is an aggressive buyer photos go up. It's still in its infancy stage. 1500 views on an item on ebay is nothing. Especially when there are psychos like me that look at a photo 50 times if they're interested. I bought a photo and heritage for 5k and was offered 9500 the next day. The examples go on and on.

10x does not translate into much money when you're only talking about a $25 photo to begin with. Each photo is very rare. Buyers are emotional about the image. There's no set price. I don't understand this argument or this post. If you want to photo by it. If you lose out on the photo don't cry move onto another photo. It's that simple. Someone wants to buy something they can do whatever they want with it. There is no set price for one particular photo. There was a name with the photo in huggins to just sold for $66,000. Everyone at the national thought it would go for 15 to 20. Seasoned dealers that have been in photos forever. There is no set price. A one week ebay auction is not the market. In auction that ended yesterday is not the market. This is my last message on this as it's just going around and around and around. I am getting g dizzy.

+10000

[Snapolit1]

My last word (promise):

There is an entire industry that exists to appraise the fair market value of artwork. Many documented one of a kind pieces of art. The idea that photos can't be valued because they are somehow special is a good canard for people making a business out of selling phots, but that's all it is. A canard.

An economist will tell you that a FMV can be determined for any commodity. If you guys in the business of buying and selling photos want to act differently, go for it. The fact that a Chinese billionaire drives by my house and falls in love with it and gives me $3 million to move doesn't obscure the fact that the fair market value of my house is $550,000.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

My last word (promise):

There is an entire industry that exists to appraise the fair market value of artwork. Many documented one of a kind pieces of art. The idea that photos can't be valued because they are somehow special is a good canard for people making a business out of selling phots, but that's all it is. A canard.

An economist will tell you that a FMV can be determined for any commodity. If you guys in the business of buying and selling photos want to act differently, go for it. The fact that a Chinese billionaire drives by my house and falls in love with it and gives me $3 million to move doesn't obscure the fact that the fair market value of my house is $550,000.

Comparing thease are extremes. It is not that simple. Clear Examples have been given.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

My last word (promise):

There is an entire industry that exists to appraise the fair market value of artwork. Many documented one of a kind pieces of art. The idea that photos can't be valued because they are somehow special is a good canard for people making a business out of selling phots, but that's all it is. A canard.

An economist will tell you that a FMV can be determined for any commodity. If you guys in the business of buying and selling photos want to act differently, go for it. The fact that a Chinese billionaire drives by my house and falls in love with it and gives me $3 million to move doesn't obscure the fact that the fair market value of my house is $550,000.

"Can be" and "has been" are two different time frames. Eventually I believe there will be a better understood market value of photos as websites continue to populate old auction results (like VCP does for cards). At this time, though, it hasn't happened and prices are still volatile.

[bn2cardz]

Not every possibly interested party is able to see every possible auction. I have paid a premium on this site when someone picked it up off of ebay for half what I paid. I knew this when I did it and felt no ill feelings towards the seller. I even told him that it essentially was a finder's fee, because he found it and not me.

Also you can't assume the prices are going up across the board on photos. Each auction seems to bring different prices. Some stay close, but others have drastic changes.

For instance this Ruth that sold in 2014 for $1068, then resold this year for $105
https://rmyauctions.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=3433
https://rmyauctions.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=23110

If the buyer this time around keeps seeing posts that say values are going up in photos and sees they bought a photo at 1/10th the price it last sold at in the same venue, would it be unreasonable for them to think they could ask 10x the value this time?

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

Not every possibly interested party is able to see every possible auction. I have paid a premium on this site when someone picked it up off of ebay for half what I paid. I knew this when I did it and felt no ill feelings towards the seller. I even told him that it essentially was a finder's fee, because he found it and not me.

Also you can't assume the prices are going up across the board on photos. Each auction seems to bring different prices. Some stay close, but others have drastic changes.

For instance this Ruth that sold in 2014 for $1068, then resold this year for $105
https://rmyauctions.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=3433
https://rmyauctions.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=23110

If the buyer this time around keeps seeing posts that say values are going up in photos and sees they bought a photo at 1/10th the price it last sold at in the same venue, would it be unreasonable for them to think they could ask 10x the value this time?

Great points. And I guess I lied about being my last post. Dang it. I doubt someone would sell there house for 1/10 of what they paid

[Snapolit1]

I lied too. My last words. . .

Yes, it's the Wild West right now in photos. Is that photo worth $1,000 or $10,000. Not always so clear. No VCP or other database to easily consult. But if the last two sales of a photo in the last two years were $500 and then $700 a few months later, I'd be hesitant to pay $4,000 unless you are buying it totally removed from any worry about valuation.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I lied too. My last words. . .

Yes, it's the Wild West right now in photos. Is that photo worth $1,000 or $10,000. Not always so clear. No VCP or other database to easily consult. But if the last two sales of a photo in the last two years were $500 and then $700 a few months later, I'd be hesitant to pay $4,000 unless you are buying it totally removed from any worry about valuation.

I wouldn't be on certain photos and certain instances. Bottom line is.. like usual .. buy what you like and feel comfortable buying. If not.. don't buy. If someone buys something for more than what you will spend, that doesn't make them stupid. If said person decides to sell that item for 2x that doesn't make them stupid or wrong... actually the contrary.

I have been offered double on an item that I mentioned before the next day and turned down.. am I stupid because of it? I think you have photos I would pay you double or even triple that you picked up a year or so ago. If you do not sell them to me, does that make you wrong?

As more people get in the photos, prices are going to fluctuate. Anytime new price points are established , pleople will resists. People that Have missed the boat so to speak are going to fight it. People that Have been doing it for a long time and want to continue to buy photos of the same prices are going to fight the change. People that have sold or traded photos and regret it(I have a couple instances) might fight it. And people that simply don't understand photos and think prices are stupid are going to fight it.

If photos take off where they could be, it will affect a lot of collectors and dealers.

Don't worry.. be happy .. and collect what you want and let others do the same.

Ps: sorry about potential gibberish.. voice texting again.