Ashamed - Topps T206 Buy Back Fraud

Peter_Spaeth · #1 08-11-2017, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KendallCat

I think in this case it would be wise to not be trying to play devils advocate or LA Law, and even appearing to take his side or trying to argue semantics of what is legal or unethical is not the point. The fact that you are even trying to stay on the other side of the line is what is interesting, and if I was a collector or dealer and read your rhetoric I would not have any dealings with you now or in the future.

What he did was fraud which is illegal and punishable by law - period. Not too hard to understand. Not a matter of did Topps copyright it or trademark it for it to be fraud. Representing something as an item that is one thing with the intention to deceive for financial gain is fraud and illegal - period. Not sure what there is to be confused about on this one.

KC

I wouldn't come down on David. He was clear that he was not defending Larry in any way. I think, rather, he was exploring some ideas and provoking discussion. Nothing wrong with that.

ALR-bishop · #2 08-11-2017, 08:46 AM

+ 1

KendallCat · #3 08-11-2017, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I wouldn't come down on David. He was clear that he was not defending Larry in any way. I think, rather, he was exploring some ideas and provoking discussion. Nothing wrong with that.

Peter - I don't think I am coming down on him, but my friendly advice is when someone commits fraud, deceives a bunch of people out of money, it crosses state lines... that is a criminal act. To argue that it is not copyrighted by Topps as a way out does not make sense since that is not the main crime. The crime is that this person took hard earned money from a bunch of people by deceiving and cheating them, and whether you think you are right for standing up for them and arguing the merits of the law it is not a good look. People will associate him with this guy whether it is correct to do so or not, and I think the smart play would be to not be on the side of the "T206 buybacks guy" or appear to be on his side. Just my two cents - your mileage may vary.

Peter_Spaeth · #4 08-11-2017, 10:15 AM

I didn't read David as being on his side at all. He clearly said in his opinion what Larry did was obviously unethical. Rather, I read him as thinking (incorrectly in my view, but whatever) about the legal ramifications of Larry's conduct, more as an academic exercise than any defense of Larry.

Leon · #5 08-11-2017, 10:15 AM

FYI, Larry admitted to me yesterday that he did 75-80 of these. That is around 10x what he had admitted to me on the 2 previous calls. Not sure if I want to speak with him again.

And yes, the MO was at least partly, "no one will ever think to look for these measly amounts". Another just brought to my attention...

http://jvscauctions.com/LotDetail.as...ntoryid=37005#

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-1911-T2...p2047675.l2557

.

the-illini · #6 08-11-2017, 10:28 AM

With ~80 of these, at $15 profit per card (hypothetically) you are over 1k in money made off of scamming people.

Not on par with a Mastro-shill bid scandal but its not inconsequential either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

FYI, Larry admitted to me yesterday that he did 75-80 of these. That is around 10x what he had admitted to me on the 2 previous calls. Not sure if I want to speak with him again.

And yes, the MO was at least partly, "no one will ever think to look for these measly amounts". Another just brought to my attention...

http://jvscauctions.com/LotDetail.as...ntoryid=37005#

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-1911-T2...p2047675.l2557

.

Peter_Spaeth · #7 08-11-2017, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

FYI, Larry admitted to me yesterday that he did 75-80 of these. That is around 10x what he had admitted to me on the 2 previous calls. Not sure if I want to speak with him again.

And yes, the MO was at least partly, "no one will ever think to look for these measly amounts". Another just brought to my attention...

http://jvscauctions.com/LotDetail.as...ntoryid=37005#

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-1911-T2...p2047675.l2557

.

If you do talk to him again, the number may keep going up.

botn · #8 08-11-2017, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

FYI, Larry admitted to me yesterday that he did 75-80 of these. That is around 10x what he had admitted to me on the 2 previous calls. Not sure if I want to speak with him again.

And yes, the MO was at least partly, "no one will ever think to look for these measly amounts". Another just brought to my attention...

http://jvscauctions.com/LotDetail.as...ntoryid=37005#

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-1911-T2...p2047675.l2557

.

I find it very hard to believe that Larry's latest admission is remotely close to what the reality is. He was identified by Jantz in 2009 doing this. So he only did 10+ of these a year if Sept of 2009 was the first time he did this? I am sure the number is significantly higher than 75-80. I really do not see him as remorseful as much as scared.

And while it is great that buyers who are on Net54 and now aware of this will have an opportunity to send these fakes back to Larry for a refund, there are probably many others who don't know they are sitting on a Lharri special.

celoknob · #9 08-11-2017, 01:55 PM

If you search his ebay seller feedback there are 149 feedbacks left for Topps buyback cards. That is just on ebay and only the people who left feedback. It doesn't mean that all 149 were fraudulent, but I wouldn't feel very confident that any particular one was a Topps product.

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