Market Manipulation: Can it Happen Again?

drcy · #1 08-20-2017, 11:01 AM

If the price of, say, a PSA 10 Mike Schmidt rookie card is 'manipulated' to $100,000, it doesn't matter if you don't buy one.

Having never spend $50,000 on a PSA Topps Sandy Koufax or Nolan Ryan, I can't say that I've been manipulated.

drcy · #2 08-20-2017, 11:06 AM

"So you've never been shill bid?"
David: "Good point."

e107collector · #3 08-21-2017, 11:23 AM

1952 topps mantle's in PSA 8.

One just sold over the weekend for $384,000.

A few over the past year or so in PSA 8 sold for $500 - $600K+.

WWG · #4 08-21-2017, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e107collector

1952 topps mantle's in PSA 8.

One just sold over the weekend for $384,000.

A few over the past year or so in PSA 8 sold for $500 - $600K+.

One sold for as little as $282K just a few weeks ago.

https://www.huntauctions.com/live/im...=314&lot_qual=

1952boyntoncollector · #5 08-21-2017, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WWG

One sold for as little as $282K just a few weeks ago.

https://www.huntauctions.com/live/im...=314&lot_qual=

we will see that one listed again somewhere else.

there is a 100,000+ premium on the better centered cards though

ajjohnsonsoxfan · #6 08-21-2017, 01:52 PM

yeah why does everyone assume cards in the same grade will sell for the same price? Still big time variations at the sgc/psa "8" grade level

packs · #7 08-21-2017, 01:57 PM

Everyone is talking about PSA 8 Mantles so it seems like you'd only have to worry about manipulation at the highest level, which doesn't really have much of an affect on most collectors. If you want to manipulate at the low level, it'll take you forever to do it. In summation, I'd like to posit that it won't ever matter much to most of us.

Baseball Bob · #8 08-21-2017, 02:23 PM

Who's to say that the bulk of the money is coming in from individuals? The secrecy of auctions makes that hard to substantiate. There is a lot of cash held in private equity firms, and it may be that they are market participants as they are looking for high rate of return investments. No evidence of collusion to drive up prices, either. I think that, like any market, there will be a severe correction as supply outstrips demand, and even the vaunted Mantles will take a hard fall. When price growth is following an exponetial trend, watch out!

samosa4u · #9 08-22-2017, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baseball Bob

Who's to say that the bulk of the money is coming in from individuals? The secrecy of auctions makes that hard to substantiate. There is a lot of cash held in private equity firms, and it may be that they are market participants as they are looking for high rate of return investments. No evidence of collusion to drive up prices, either.

Yes, I agree that no evidence exists, but there are a lot of questions that remain unanswered. For example, there was a popular thread started last summer titled �Changing of the Guard: The Commoditization of Sportscards,� and here is what the OP (Brent) wrote:

Yes, I do believe this hobby is getting pushed hard by a limited number of collector/investors. Not sure exactly how many heavy investors there are, but I�d say the people most responsible number more than 10 and probably less than 30.

This sentence freaked me out for some reason. More than 10 and probably less than 30? Really? I would love to find out who these people are. So in 2016 these guys just suddenly went nuts buying cards and then stopped?

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

Everyone is talking about PSA 8 Mantles so it seems like you'd only have to worry about manipulation at the highest level, which doesn't really have much of an affect on most collectors. If you want to manipulate at the low level, it'll take you forever to do it. In summation, I'd like to posit that it won't ever matter much to most of us.

The lower level cards were on fire as well. I think that people just use the PSA 8 Mantle to show how bad this whole thing was. The lower-end stuff dropped in value too.

MVSNYC · #10 08-21-2017, 02:50 PM

The Hunt example was poorly centered, and in an old flip.

The Heritage example was not well centered, and corners looked a little soft.

WWG · #11 08-21-2017, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

The Hunt example was poorly centered, and in an old flip.

The Heritage example was not well centered, and corners looked a little soft.

So if both cards have their faults what do you equate the almost $400K difference in price?

Peter_Spaeth · #12 08-21-2017, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

The Hunt example was poorly centered, and in an old flip.

The Heritage example was not well centered, and corners looked a little soft.

The Heritage example was not well centered?? Seriously??

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