Did PSA get a free pass on The American Greed show?

WhenItWasAHobby · #1 08-22-2017, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flintboy

I don't think they mentioned PSA by name once.....Quite a few things concerned me regarding that company including the Ruth card getting bumped significantly from the "other company's " holder. Being the industry leader that they are, they need to do better.

I was thinking the same exact thing once the episode ended. PSA should have been strongly scrutinized for the Wagner and those Evers cards that went from SGC 4 to PSA 6. I also seem to recall that during the criminal hearings it was disclosed that Mastro acknowledged to a wired witness or in a wire tap that ALL the cards he submitted to PSA were altered. That to me was the biggest scandal in all of this. I'd rather overpay for a good card than pay anything for a bad card. What a scandal and to my knowledge none of the widespread damage has ever been redressed.

Peter_Spaeth · #2 08-22-2017, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

I was thinking the same exact thing once the episode ended. PSA should have been strongly scrutinized for the Wagner and those Evers cards that went from SGC 4 to PSA 6. I also seem to recall that during the criminal hearings it was disclosed that Mastro acknowledged to a wired witness or in a wire tap that ALL the cards he submitted to PSA were altered. That to me was the biggest scandal in all of this. I'd rather overpay for a good card than pay anything for a bad card. What a scandal and to my knowledge none of the widespread damage has ever been redressed.

Altered cards are pervasive. Some cards are more altered than others. And as long as they are encapsulated, most people don't seem to care.

clydepepper · #3 08-22-2017, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Altered cards are pervasive. Some cards are more altered than others. And as long as they are encapsulated, most people don't seem to care.

I live on the hope that my graded cards are not altered, always assuming that whoever graded them had more knowledge than me and had no motivation other than grading the card accurately.

We can only hope that all graders are monitored, scrutinized and held accountable for their work.

Pie-in-the-Sky? Perhaps.

Bicem · #4 08-22-2017, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Pie-in-the-Sky? Perhaps.

Definitely!

Peter_Spaeth · #5 08-22-2017, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clydepepper

I live on the hope that my graded cards are not altered, always assuming that whoever graded them had more knowledge than me and had no motivation other than grading the card accurately.

We can only hope that all graders are monitored, scrutinized and held accountable for their work.

Pie-in-the-Sky? Perhaps.

There are really good card doctors out there who get stuff past well-intentioned graders, particularly where TPGs basically are giving most cards a relatively quick look and are not running a crime lab. Good alteration can be hard to detect; many experts have commented on this. I think this is the main problem, although I have suspicions about other things.

WhenItWasAHobby · #6 08-22-2017, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Altered cards are pervasive. Some cards are more altered than others. And as long as they are encapsulated, most people don't seem to care.

How sad and how true.

Peter_Spaeth · #7 08-22-2017, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

How sad and how true.

It's the hobby's dirty not-so-secret, every AH and dealer out there knows (IMO of course) they are dealing with altered material.

prestigecollectibles · #8 08-22-2017, 10:19 AM

Here is a You Tube video called "Holy Grail: The T206 Honus Wagner" produced by ESPN with Keith Olbermann.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUTbxT_CleE

barrysloate · #9 08-22-2017, 11:07 AM

Another possible explanation:

A collector who submits a group of raw cards and gets back lots of 7's and 8's is a happy camper, and likely to submit more cards in the future. A collector who gets back a lot of cards with "evidence of trim" is unhappy and likely angry, and probably won't be sending cards in to "those guys" again.

And every business wants happy customers who will end up being repeat customers. So is it possible that cards that are close enough get graded to keep everyone happy? I know it sounds a little crazy, but I am looking for something to explain why such an alarming number of altered cards get holdered.

Peter_Spaeth · #10 08-22-2017, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Another possible explanation:

A collector who submits a group of raw cards and gets back lots of 7's and 8's is a happy camper, and likely to submit more cards in the future. A collector who gets back a lot of cards with "evidence of trim" is unhappy and likely angry, and probably won't be sending cards in to "those guys" again.

And every business wants happy customers who will end up being repeat customers. So is it possible that cards that are close enough get graded to keep everyone happy? I know it sounds a little crazy, but I am looking for something to explain why such an alarming number of altered cards get holdered.

As I said, I think it's mostly because some card doctors are very skilled, and TPGs are mostly doing a minimal review and not conducting sophisticated tests. I believe the President of SGC said years ago that microtrimming was nearly impossible to detect, for example.

Fballguy · #11 08-22-2017, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prestigecollectibles

Here is a You Tube video called "Holy Grail: The T206 Honus Wagner" produced by ESPN with Keith Olbermann.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUTbxT_CleE

Thanks...That was a good watch. The card was so nice in all other aspects, why bother to trim it?

insidethewrapper · #12 08-22-2017, 11:33 AM

I wonder how others on here would have handled that garage sale ? I wonder if the seller was hoping for $ 25 and when he said $ 500 he said yes quickly. I always ask what they want for their items and go from there ? If both parties are happy then what's wrong .

rats60 · #13 08-22-2017, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Thanks...That was a good watch. The card was so nice in all other aspects, why bother to trim it?

The story was that the card was originally part of an uncut strip. The person who cut it off the strip did a poor job. Mastro just improved it.

The Nasty Nati · #14 08-22-2017, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

I was thinking the same exact thing once the episode ended. PSA should have been strongly scrutinized for the Wagner and those Evers cards that went from SGC 4 to PSA 6. I also seem to recall that during the criminal hearings it was disclosed that Mastro acknowledged to a wired witness or in a wire tap that ALL the cards he submitted to PSA were altered. That to me was the biggest scandal in all of this. I'd rather overpay for a good card than pay anything for a bad card. What a scandal and to my knowledge none of the widespread damage has ever been redressed.

Personally, I think chances are very high that most tobacco cards graded PSA 6 or higher have been 'professionally' trimmed. The likelihood that a card stayed that crisp over 100 years is slim. I'm sure there are genuine examples out there, but very very few.

That's why I collect in the 3-5 range. They all have some corner wear, so you know it's legit...also I just can't afford most super high-end grades

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