American Greed-CNBC

[hshrimps]

Wasn't Mastro Auction tried to be become a public company at one time??? Mastro and his team would have been in much longer jail time. They were "lucky" they didn't make it to a public company..

[h2oya311]

Just watched last night. Big kudos to Ryan and Jeff. Would have liked to have heard more about the actual investigation and whether there was any restitution for those who were defrauded. I don't know enough about the details of the sentencing. I seem to recall that Mastro ratted out Allen to get a reduced sentence.

[Kenny Cole]

There was no restitution that I am aware of.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Robert_Lifson

I don't know if this solves the problem but I see the extra footage is also posted on YouTube now. I hope this helps! Here are the links:


https://youtu.be/2QeAzcdNRLc

https://youtu.be/niopU2C43ys

https://youtu.be/5XbgTccK_6o

Those worked.

Thank you, Robert.

[Klrdds]

Originally Posted by hshrimps

Wasn't Mastro Auction tried to be become a public company at one time??? Mastro and his team would have been in much longer jail time. They were "lucky" they didn't make it to a public company..

Yes that is true. Sometime in the late 1990s to early to mid 2000's ( I can't remember exactly ) Mastro announced in a special mailing to preferred customers that they were going public in the essence of selling shares in their company but it was never going to be a publicly "listed" company . The share purchase option and contract was offered by invitation only to"substantial clients " who spent a minimum amount of money in their auctions or to substantial consignors to their auctions. It was an "Exclusive Offering to preferred clients". The shares were going to be for the company in a private manner to allow Mastro to become bigger and actually purchase items to auction. As I recall shares were at least $1000 each and a minimum number of share purchases were required to begin and no dividends were paid and your shares had no voting rights and no reinvestment option and had a minimum hold period , that is they could not be bought or sold openly at any time , only when Mastro would offer a buy back or a purchase announcement .
Looking back I wonder if he was going to ponzi those investors, but the idea never gained momentum because the investor had all the risk but very little upside except to what Mastro would allow as far as appreciation of your shares and of course the initial purchase price.
If someone else remembers more about this or more correctly then please feel free to correct me.

[ElCabron]

Bill Mastro had to pay a fine. No restitution. It would have been a logistical nightmare to try to figure out actual losses and come up with an amount to be paid. But I'm sure now that he is out of prison and has had a spiritual awakening, he is working hard crunching the numbers to figure out how much he stole so he can pay it back and make things right. Look for your checks as soon as GAI opens on Monday.

-Ryan

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by ElCabron

Bill Mastro had to pay a fine. No restitution. It would have been a logistical nightmare to try to figure out actual losses and come up with an amount to be paid. But I'm sure now that he is out of prison and has had a spiritual awakening, he is working hard crunching the numbers to figure out how much he stole so he can pay it back and make things right. Look for your checks as soon as GAI opens on Monday.

-Ryan

After watching the American Greed episode a second time, one thing that jumped out at me was the repeated statement that Mastro Auctions made over $200,000,000.00 in gross sales and then later filed for bankruptcy in 2009 when the Feds started breathing down their necks and making them record all auction bids thus causing the sales to plummet. If they were taking 15% buyers and 15% sellers fees, plus making profits on re-sold items, ie the Evers Lot and other items owned by Mastro, then Mastro Auctions was netting at least $60,000,000 over that duration. Obviously there was some overhead, taxes and employees salaries, but clearly a substantial portion must of gone into Bill Mastro's and Doug Allen's pockets.

Was there any financial accountability of those two during the investigation, trial or sentencing for seizing assets or were they found to be conveniently broke? As Ryan Christoff wisely noted in the closing of the program, the punishment didn't appear to fit the crime.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

After watching the American Greed episode a second time, one thing that jumped out at me was the repeated statement that Mastro Auctions made over $200,000,000.00 in gross sales and then later filed for bankruptcy in 2009 when the Feds started breathing down their necks and making them record all auction bids thus causing the sales to plummet. If they were taking 15% buyers and 15% sellers fees, plus making profits on re-sold items, ie the Evers Lot and other items owned by Mastro, then Mastro Auctions was netting at least $60,000,000 over that duration. Obviously there was some overhead, taxes and employees salaries, but clearly a substantial portion must of gone into Bill Mastro's and Doug Allen's pockets.

Was there any financial accountability of those two during the investigation, trial or sentencing for seizing assets or were they found to be conveniently broke? As Ryan Christoff wisely noted in the closing of the program, the punishment didn't appear to fit the crime.

Most hobby criminals go scot free, so I think credit should be given even if the sentence was less than some would have liked to see.

[Jenx34]

I wondered the same thing about how in the world they went bankrupt. Unfortunately, what most people and many companies do, is as more $$ come in, they spend more and more, often in stupid ways.

To your last question, the company could easily have "gone bankrupt" while the people that ran it got rich. That's the protection of incorporating. If the business goes bad, you aren't personally liable. So they may have paid themselves into bankruptcy, whether intentional or not, only they would know.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Jenx34

I wondered the same thing about how in the world they went bankrupt. Unfortunately, what most people and many companies do, is as more $$ come in, they spend more and more, often in stupid ways.

To your last question, the company could easily have "gone bankrupt" while the people that ran it got rich. That's the protection of incorporating. If the business goes bad, you aren't personally liable. So they may have paid themselves into bankruptcy, whether intentional or not, only they would know.

I agree with your assessment that people can either squander their profits, overpay themselves (and sometimes hide the money from creditors), or make just bad business decisions and drive the corporation into bankruptcy. Mastro Auctions had very little downside to their business, so I see it as the first two options. Also, when fraud occurs courts can "pierce the corporate veil" and go after individuals or "alter egos" (individuals who use a business identities designed for perpetrating fraud). I'm actually surprised nobody has sued Mastro or Allen after all of this - or have they?

[Robert_Lifson]

They actually have been sued and with some degree of success. I know of two civil lawsuits filed against Mastro Auctions since they ceased operating (though there may be others). Both lawsuits were also filed against Bill Mastro and Doug Allen personally. Both lawsuits were settled to the satisfaction of the parties claiming to have been damaged by Mastro Auctions.

One lawsuit was filed in February 2014 by Dr. Howard Rosing (a very longtime advanced collector and true gentleman).

Below is a link to an article about the Howard Rosing vs Mastro et al lawsuit. The lawsuit was settled very quickly. Because a confidentiality agreement was signed, Dr. Rosing was not at liberty to tell me the details of the settlement, only that it occurred, and that he was very pleased.

The complaint involved four single-signed baseballs that Rosing purchased from Mastro Auctions between 1998 and 2001 for a total of $134,000. According to the complaint, "Rosing has since learned that the four baseballs are in fact counterfeit" and his $130,000+ in damages were "caused by Defendants' fraud and/or negligence." The four single-signed balls were: Mickey Welch ($20,217), Jack Chesbro ($20,898), Frank Chance ($21,836),and Henry Chadwick ($61,251). Extremely interesting note that is not mentioned in the following article or the text of the Rosing complaint: the Henry Chadwick single-signed ball was consigned by Peter Nash. And the Mickey Welch single-signed ball also originated from (that is, was previously sold at auction two years earlier by)....Peter Nash.

Article Link:

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...ned-baseballs/

In June 2009 when Mastro Auctions sued Dave Forman for $400,000, Dave Foreman countersued for damages relating to various issues including shill bidding. The countersuit prepared by Dave Forman's brilliant attorney in the case (Jeffrey Lichtman) was extremely detailed and devastating. Instead of collecting $400,000 FROM Forman (who did not dispute having an unpaid auction balance, but did dispute the exact amount), Mastro Auctions not only dropped and completely abandoned their entire claim against Forman (lowering the $400,000 to $0) but also returned over $100,000 in cards to Forman that he believed were owed to him, and, in addition, Forman actually received a payment of $3600 in the settlement. (Hard not to say "wow" to that complete turnaround).

Links:

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/a-fine-mess/

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...ticle-1.428887

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/mo...e_desktop=true


https://www.google.com/amp/www.nydai...ticle-1.121333

[mantlefan]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

After watching the American Greed episode a second time, one thing that jumped out at me was the repeated statement that Mastro Auctions made over $200,000,000.00 in gross sales and then later filed for bankruptcy in 2009 when the Feds started breathing down their necks and making them record all auction bids thus causing the sales to plummet. If they were taking 15% buyers and 15% sellers fees, plus making profits on re-sold items, ie the Evers Lot and other items owned by Mastro, then Mastro Auctions was netting at least $60,000,000 over that duration. Obviously there was some overhead, taxes and employees salaries, but clearly a substantial portion must of gone into Bill Mastro's and Doug Allen's pockets.

Was there any financial accountability of those two during the investigation, trial or sentencing for seizing assets or were they found to be conveniently broke? As Ryan Christoff wisely noted in the closing of the program, the punishment didn't appear to fit the crime.

Dan, you would be astounded to learn how much exacto knives, hair dryers, power erasers, bleach and Toluene cost these days. It really adds up!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Frank, funny, but my guess is most of the work was done by outside contractors.

[mantlefan]

Peter, do you think Dick Towle was a sub-contractor?