Hey, pennant guys

yankeesjetsfan · #1 08-29-2017, 08:57 AM

Those are some sweet pennants Rob. Now I want to see how many variations I can find for the 2 All Star Games held at Yankee Stadium in '77 & '08. The new Yankee Stadium has not hosted one just yet.

Mike

bocca001 · #2 08-29-2017, 09:56 AM

Rob- I thought about bidding on that pennant. I went to several games in 1984, including old timers day (have the pennant listing SF Giant All Starts somewhere back at my parents house in CA).

Fballguy · #3 08-30-2017, 01:33 PM

I know we've talked about this previously but I'm too lazy to hunt through 100+pages to find the discussion. Apologies to anyone who doesn't feel like rehashing an old topic...

I was looking at the results from Hunt's Duke Hott collection/Super Bowl auction a couple years ago and I was surprised at the strong sale price of some of the pennants despite what I'd consider to be lower grade condition. It got me to wondering, is condition that important? Is there that much of a premium put on a pennant in NM condition, compared to one say in average condition? Or does rarity trump everything?

I'm also wondering what your condition down grader/disqualifiers are.

For me, above all else...a torn or missing tip really bothers me. A very slight bluntness I can live with as long as the tip still appears to come to somewhat of a point. But a tear near the tip or missing tip really turns me off to that pennant. Interestingly, a tear elsewhere on the pennant doesn't bother me as much. I can live with stains, fading, cracked paint, missing tassels and/or a moth eaten spine. I actually like my old pennants to look old.

What about you? What is the most egregious defect to you? Curious to hear everyone's thoughts....again.

Duluth Eskimo · #4 08-30-2017, 03:12 PM

You're going to get all kinds of answers. I know for many, a non full tip is a killer. Also, tears or significant fading also kills it. For me personally, it's about display. If it displays well, I am fine with it if it is very difficult or rare.

Unfortunately, most of what I buy is for resale and I don't buy anything that is not in ExMt or better. If the tip is blunt from the original cut, I'm fine with that for resale. If it's altered in any way I completely pass for the most part.

Fballguy · #5 08-30-2017, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

You're going to get all kinds of answers. I know for many, a non full tip is a killer. Also, tears or significant fading also kills it. For me personally, it's about display. If it displays well, I am fine with it if it is very difficult or rare.

Unfortunately, most of what I buy is for resale and I don't buy anything that is not in ExMt or better. If the tip is blunt from the original cut, I'm fine with that for resale. If it's altered in any way I completely pass for the most part.

I agree...It's all in how it displays. A little patina works for me. Missing tip to me kills the display.

Where do you sell?

ooo-ribay · #6 08-30-2017, 07:58 PM

If I have a chance to get an SF Giants pennant I "need" or have never seen before, I am going for it, regardless of condition. If I can upgrade at a later date, all the better. That said, condition WILL influence the price I'm willing to pay.

ooo-ribay · #7 08-30-2017, 08:05 PM

Speaking of "needs," here they are. I'd take an example of any of these in almost any shape. I have seen these offered once, maybe twice or never (only pictures).

perezfan · #8 08-30-2017, 03:20 PM

Condition is a topic that's very near and dear to my heart. I've learned that it differs for many collectors, and that I'm pickier than most. But here is how I see it...

Acceptable/Expected:
* Pin or small nail holes (but not right up against a border)
* Puckering and/or slight cracking to the painted graphics
* Very minor surface soiling or fading
* One tassel (but not both) missing from either the top or bottom
* Loose stitching to spine, at very top or bottom
* Blunt (but not torn) Tip... many were simply made that way

Not Acceptable:
* Rips or Tears anywhere on the pennant (especially those that emanate from any border).
* Holes 1/4" diameter or larger
* Any holes close enough to a border that they're in danger of tearing through to the edge
* Ink writing anywhere on front of pennant (reverse side is ok, as long as it doesn't show through)
* Any alteration... especially when someone tried to re-create a pointed tip.
* Significant surface soiling/toning/fading
* Both tassels missing from either the top or the bottom

I can make exceptions for exceedingly rare pennants or oversized pennants from the teens. But otherwise, those are my guidelines. Eager to hear from others!

perezfan · #9 08-30-2017, 03:48 PM

And then this leads to "What constitutes restoration" and what does not...

My view is as follows...

Not Acceptable Restoration:
* Cutting or trimming anywhere on the pennant
* Coloring in missing portions of painted graphics
* Filling in holes with felt from another "donor" pennant
* Replacing, re-stitching or re-gluing the pennant's spine.
* And yes, I'd say that bleaching is alteration as well... albeit a slightly "lesser evil", perhaps.

Acceptable:
* Dabbing or cleaning of excess dust, dirt, grime, etc. with a cloth or towel
* Removal of Pet Hair or Dust with tape or a lint roller
* Ironing out excess wrinkles/creases (done from reverse side)

If any of the above practices deemed "Not Acceptable" are done, I feel it is incumbent upon the Seller to disclose them.
Just my opinions.... others will vary

yankeesjetsfan · #10 08-30-2017, 03:56 PM

For me, since I am a beginner at collecting pennants, I will pretty much add any pennants to my collection unless its really dirty, bent badly, torn or the pin holes are noticeable. I can always upgrade when funds are available.

Mike

Fballguy · #11 08-31-2017, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

And then this leads to "What constitutes restoration" and what does not...

My view is as follows...

Not Acceptable Restoration:
* Cutting or trimming anywhere on the pennant
* Coloring in missing portions of painted graphics
* Filling in holes with felt from another "donor" pennant
* Replacing, re-stitching or re-gluing the pennant's spine.
* And yes, I'd say that bleaching is alteration as well... albeit a slightly "lesser evil", perhaps.

Acceptable:
* Dabbing or cleaning of excess dust, dirt, grime, etc. with a cloth or towel
* Removal of Pet Hair or Dust with tape or a lint roller
* Ironing out excess wrinkles/creases (done from reverse side)

If any of the above practices deemed "Not Acceptable" are done, I feel it is incumbent upon the Seller to disclose them.
Just my opinions.... others will vary

Would you pay more for an all original 68 Camaro that looks terrible, doesn't run and sits like a paperweight in your driveway or one that's fully restored?

This is an interesting topic to me as well as I've often wondered about making repairs, outside of just cleaning/bleaching. Do you think a rare pennant with a rip in it, is more valuable or desirable with the rip left as is, or if it was stitched shut?

As far as unacceptable restoration for me...Mark's first 3 bullets definitely hit the mark (no pun intended). Those are all deal breakers for me. Bullets 4 and 5 however, wouldn't turn me off. It would be virtually impossible to tell if a spine has been restitched anyway...unless it was done very amateurishly. Bleaching doesn't really bother me either. Would you lose interest in the 68 Camaro because the seller didn't leave on 50 years of dirt?

Fballguy · #12 08-30-2017, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

Condition is a topic that's very near and dear to my heart. I've learned that it differs for many collectors, and that I'm pickier than most. But here is how I see it...

Acceptable/Expected:
* Pin or small nail holes (but not right up against a border)
* Puckering and/or slight cracking to the painted graphics
* Very minor surface soiling or fading
* One tassel (but not both) missing from either the top or bottom
* Loose stitching to spine, at very top or bottom
* Blunt (but not torn) Tip... many were simply made that way

Not Acceptable:
* Rips or Tears anywhere on the pennant (especially those that emanate from any border).
* Holes 1/4" diameter or larger
* Any holes close enough to a border that they're in danger of tearing through to the edge
* Ink writing anywhere on front of pennant (reverse side is ok, as long as it doesn't show through)
* Any alteration... especially when someone tried to re-create a pointed tip.
* Significant surface soiling/toning/fading
* Both tassels missing from either the top or the bottom

I can make exceptions for exceedingly rare pennants or oversized pennants from the teens. But otherwise, those are my guidelines. Eager to hear from others!

I agree for the most part. Tassels to me, however, are no big deal. If I see I pennant I want, I can't remember ever thinking "if only it had tassels".

It just doesn't bother me...in fact, I've removed the tassels from pennants that had some missing or had badly mangled ones.

Writing or the recreation of a pointy tip are deal breakers. I bought a rare early 70's Giants (football) pennant a couple months back that looked fine in the pictures. But when I held it in my hand, it was obvious the tip was shave into a false point. I got it for a great price and now I knew why. I guess the seller thought the price told the story, so he didn't have to. There was no mention of it in the listing.

I've noticed puckering on a few of my pennants (typically 1960's pennants) and wondered what caused that. It's usually near the spine, so thought maybe a production error? Or maybe the pennant was washed in someway and shrunk? What's the explanation on that?

Duluth Eskimo · #13 08-31-2017, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yankeesjetsfan

Those are some sweet pennants Rob. Now I want to see how many variations I can find for the 2 All Star Games held at Yankee Stadium in '77 & '08. The new Yankee Stadium has not hosted one just yet.

Mike

Mike,
What about the 1960 game?

yankeesjetsfan · #14 08-31-2017, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

Mike,
What about the 1960 game?

Those are gorgeous Jason.

Mike

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