American Greed-CNBC

[Jenx34]

Originally Posted by rats60

A good deal is fine. Paying 1% is another matter.

Here is the problem with that premise. Have you ever had a garage sale? In it's best, if you're lucky, it's controlled chaos. You are trying to keep an eye on multiple people, people are asking questions giving you money for 3, 4 or 5 items and asking you to do quick math while doing everything else.

Your goal is to get rid of as much stuff as possible so you don't have to put it back up, bring it back inside or take it to a donation location. It's a lot of freaking work and usually for not a ton of money. Most people's goal is to get rid of as much crap as possible. We had one recently and my house was chaotic and cluttered for 2 weeks prior and a full week afterward.

In preparation, you put stuff together, try to organize as best as possible and put prices on things. People constantly ask you to take less than your price and you have to decide whether to say yes or tell them to piss off while holding a smile. If you research every item, it will take HOURS and you still won't find all the answers, as Leon intimated. I had some German Beer Steins that I didn't know how old they were. I tried looking them up by the markings and still couldn't find the right answer. Finally, I decided to price them at $20 for the pair because I didn't figure they were older than the 70's or 80s. They didn't sell. Still have them. What if they are much older and worth a lot? I still don't know and haven't continued to search. If someone offered me $15 for the pair I'd have gladly taken it and not looked back. So if they knew something I didn't and I sold them, I wouldn't have known. If I found out later, I'd have thought well shit... But the hours it takes to gain the knowledge Leon speaks of, especially for all kinds of household items is NOT worth it for someone having a freaking garage sale.

The other alternative is to hire a company that does estate sales, pay them to run it and their commission and hope they have the knowledge to make you more money. That doesn't happen for a simple garage sale.

Lastly, what if someone pays $50, $500 or $5,000 and finds out the items are fake? Do they show back up at the guy's house asking for their money back? Hell no.

I think it is absolutely ridiculous that people are acting like he duped the old man. Do you think the guy has the desire or the time to stand there while someone thumbs through cards with everything else going on? He offered a price and it was accepted. It's really easy in hindsight to say "I would have done this or that". I call BS. The old man got what he asked, the buyer got a rare lucky find. It is what it is, but NO ONE got taken advantage of.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Jenx34

Here is the promise with that premise. Have you ever had a garage sale? In it's best, if you're lucky, it's controlled chaos. You are trying to keep an eye on multiple people, people are asking questions giving you money for 3, 4 or 5 items and asking you to do quick math while doing everything else.

Your goal is to get rid of as much stuff as possible so you don't have to put it back up, bring it back inside or take it to a donation location. It's a lot of freaking work and usually for not a ton of money. Most people's goal is to get rid of as much crap as possible. We had one recently and my house was chaotic and cluttered for 2 weeks prior and a full week afterward.

In preparation, you put stuff together, try to organize as best as possible and put prices on things. People constantly ask you to take less than your price and you have to decide whether to say yes or tell them to piss off while holding a smile. If you research every item, it will take HOURS and you still won't find all the answers, as Leon intimated. I had some German Beer Steins that I didn't know how old they were. I tried looking them up by the markings and still couldn't find the right answer. Finally, I decided to price them at $20 for the pair because I didn't figure they were older than the 70's or 80s. They didn't sell. Still have them. What if they are much older and worth a lot? I still don't know and haven't continued to search. If someone offered me $15 for the pair I'd have gladly taken it and not looked back. So if they knew something I didn't and I sold them, I wouldn't have known. If I found out later, I'd have thought well shit... But the hours it takes to gain the knowledge Leon speaks of, especially for all kinds of household items is NOT worth it for someone having a freaking garage sale.

The other alternative is to hire a company that does estate sales, pay them to run it and their commission and hope they have the knowledge to make you more money. That doesn't happen for a simple garage sale.

Lastly, what if someone pays $50, $500 or $5,000 and finds out the items are fake? Do they show back up at the guy's house asking for their money back? Hell no.

I think it is absolutely ridiculous that people are acting like he duped the old man. Do you think the guy has the desire or the time to stand there while someone thumbs through cards with everything else going on? He offered a price and it was accepted. It's really easy in hindsight to say "I would have done this or that". I call BS. The old man got what he asked, the buyer got a rare lucky find. It is what it is, but NO ONE got taken advantage of.

The seller didn't get what he asked. The buyer made a lowball offer on something an old man didn't know what it was worth. If you are ok with offering an old man 1%, that is you, it is not everyone. Leon said he tries to offer 50%. I have offered people more than their asking price when they underprice their items. I certainly wouldn't ever offer 1%.

[Jenx34]

Originally Posted by rats60

The seller didn't get what
he asked. The buyer made a lowball offer on something an old man didn't know what it was worth. If you are ok with offering an old man 1%, that is you, it is not everyone. Leon said he tries to offer 50%. I have offered people more than their asking price when they underprice their items. I certainly wouldn't ever offer 1%.

The problem is you are using #s you know after the fact. There is no way he knew what was exactly what was in that box, what quality and 100% sure they were reprints or commons underneath the nice cards on top. He thought there was some good stuff there and made an offer. The guy took it. In that situation, you arent sitting down at a table, inspecting each card and referring to the price guide of your choice. That's not how it works. You look at something, you make a quick judgement on its value to you, make a deal and get out. It works that way for both parties. The #s you refer to aren't known at the time. So your scenario just isn't realistic. It's easy to criticize after the fact.

My wife recently bought some old China in a pattern she was familiar with. Couple was having a moving sale and had all the dishes wrapped and packed neatly. She asked how much and was told $40. She accepted quickly thinking she could get $300 - $500 or even more if she took the time to sell them individually. Did my wife cheat or take advantage? Hell no, she gave them what they asked. We got home and found 2 pieces broken in half and many others chipped or cracked. Now we may only get $50 or maybe $100 if we're lucky. We took the risk and lost. But there were 8 other people there looking at stuff at the same time. The sellers didn't want her unpacking the entire box and inspecting every piece. There was no room or place to do so. You buy what looks good to you and you pay what the seller will take. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. In this case, the guy won big, but because of a crook masquerading as an advocate, he didn't win as big as he could have. Stop armchair quarterbacking while watching a replay of the game and understand the reality of what happens in the moment.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Jenx34

The problem is you are using #s you know after the fact. There is no way he knew what was exactly what was in that box, what quality and 100% sure they were reprints or commons underneath the nice cards on top. He thought there was some good stuff there and made an offer. The guy took it. In that situation, you arent sitting down at a table, inspecting each card and referring to the price guide of your choice. That's not how it works. You look at something, you make a quick judgement on its value to you, make a deal and get out. It works that way for both parties. The #s you refer to aren't known at the time. So your scenario just isn't realistic. It's easy to criticize after the fact.

My wife recently bought some old China in a pattern she was familiar with. Couple was having a moving sale and had all the dishes wrapped and packed neatly. She asked how much and was told $40. She accepted quickly thinking she could get $300 - $500 or even more if she took the time to sell them individually. Did my wife cheat or take advantage? Hell no, she gave them what they asked. We got home and found 2 pieces broken in half and many others chipped or cracked. Now we may only get $50 or maybe $100 if we're lucky. We took the risk and lost. But there were 8 other people there looking at stuff at the same time. The sellers didn't want her unpacking the entire box and inspecting every piece. There was no room or place to do so. You buy what looks good to you and you pay what the seller will take. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. In this case, the guy won big, but because of a crook masquerading as an advocate, he didn't win as big as he could have. Stop armchair quarterbacking while watching a replay of the game and understand the reality of what happens in the moment.

Your justification doesn't work for me. I have bought lots of collections over the years. You can get a pretty good idea of value pretty quickly. The guy offered 500 for a collection he netted almost 50k and he thinks was worth 300k to 350k. You can get a lot closer than that at a quick glance.

In your wife's example, she paid 40 for something she thought was worth 300-500. What if she had told them they were only worth $1? That is more in line with what happened.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Jenx34

Here is the promise with that premise. Have you ever had a garage sale? In it's best, if you're lucky, it's controlled chaos. You are trying to keep an eye on multiple people, people are asking questions giving you money for 3, 4 or 5 items and asking you to do quick math while doing everything else.

Your goal is to get rid of as much stuff as possible so you don't have to put it back up, bring it back inside or take it to a donation location. It's a lot of freaking work and usually for not a ton of money. Most people's goal is to get rid of as much crap as possible. We had one recently and my house was chaotic and cluttered for 2 weeks prior and a full week afterward.

In preparation, you put stuff together, try to organize as best as possible and put prices on things. People constantly ask you to take less than your price and you have to decide whether to say yes or tell them to piss off while holding a smile. If you research every item, it will take HOURS and you still won't find all the answers, as Leon intimated. I had some German Beer Steins that I didn't know how old they were. I tried looking them up by the markings and still couldn't find the right answer. Finally, I decided to price them at $20 for the pair because I didn't figure they were older than the 70's or 80s. They didn't sell. Still have them. What if they are much older and worth a lot? I still don't know and haven't continued to search. If someone offered me $15 for the pair I'd have gladly taken it and not looked back. So if they knew something I didn't and I sold them, I wouldn't have known. If I found out later, I'd have thought well shit... But the hours it takes to gain the knowledge Leon speaks of, especially for all kinds of household items is NOT worth it for someone having a freaking garage sale.

The other alternative is to hire a company that does estate sales, pay them to run it and their commission and hope they have the knowledge to make you more money. That doesn't happen for a simple garage sale.

Lastly, what if someone pays $50, $500 or $5,000 and finds out the items are fake? Do they show back up at the guy's house asking for their money back? Hell no.

I think it is absolutely ridiculous that people are acting like he duped the old man. Do you think the guy has the desire or the time to stand there while someone thumbs through cards with everything else going on? He offered a price and it was accepted. It's really easy in hindsight to say "I would have done this or that". I call BS. The old man got what he asked, the buyer got a rare lucky find. It is what it is, but NO ONE got taken advantage of.

Great post Chris, I agree completely.

Because of someone not knowing they was selling error versions of a card I recently picked up $100 worth of cards for $3. I am pretty sure we are both happy because I paid their full asking price.

I have also bought a complete vintage set at the buyers asking price. The cards turned out to be much nicer that what I thought I was buying. I sent the seller an addition 40% of their asking price.

[RedsFan1941]

the fact that many people's main takeaway from this episode is the garage sale transaction is Exhibit A on how mastro was able to dupe so many people. talk about not being able to keep your eye on the ball.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

the fact that many people's main takeaway from this episode is the garage sale transaction is Exhibit A on how mastro was able to dupe so many people. talk about not being able to keep your eye on the ball.

I think it is more we all agree Mastro is a scum bag but we differ on the garage sale.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I think it is more we all agree Mastro is a scum bag but we differ on the garage sale.

Uh no, not everyone on this board or even on this thread thinks Mastro is a scumbag. Some even wrote letters in support of Mastro at sentencing.

[rjackson44]

What ever happened to mastro ,what is he doing now ,,the show never mentioned it ,,

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Uh no, not everyone on this board or even on this thread thinks Mastro is a scumbag. Some even wrote letters in support of Mastro at sentencing.

Interesting. Maybe those letters should be posted here?

[irv]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Uh no, not everyone on this board or even on this thread thinks Mastro is a scumbag. Some even wrote letters in support of Mastro at sentencing.

Unbelievable!

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by irv

Unbelievable!

I wish more had written asking the judge to keep him in the pen much longer. I did. Unfortunately, as Jeff said, some others went the other way which I confess I still cannot process very well.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

the fact that many people's main takeaway from this episode is the garage sale transaction is Exhibit A on how mastro was able to dupe so many people. talk about not being able to keep your eye on the ball.

Now that all this happened a while ago another thing no one seems to have brought up. Several people stopped dealing cards, quit auctions houses and sold their collections that got outed during this fiasco. I bet most of them are sad now. Compare them to Ken Goldin who basically give the big FU to every body because he knew the majority of collectors would buy from the devil himself if they though they could get a good deal. Amazing how we all see the same thing yet interpret so differently.

[drcy]

An expert can get into trouble if he lies to get a steal from someone. One of the Antiques Roadshow experts-- I believe in Civil War items-- got into legal trouble because he lied to the owner about what he had to get it at a bargain price. If you represent yourself as an expert and an appraiser, then lie about what the person has and the value, that may be the difference.

Of course, dealers know that the case usually is that the unexperienced usually overestimate rather than underestimate the value of what they have.

[Mdmtx]

With regard to the lowball price on the Goudey cards, I have a plausible theory. Just guessing, but with all the publicity cards have received in the past 30+ years, these cards may have been taken to a "reputable" card shop for appraisal and from ignorance or from larcenous intent, they were appraised as fakes. As we know our hobby is full of slicksters. The way I conduct myself in a purchase from a seller with no card experience is to make a reasonable guess at the market value and explain roughly the cost, time and risk associated with a sale of that nature. Then offer a price to purchase them. I have been turned down plenty of times, but I have bought plenty and never had a night of lost sleep from from putting the proverbial screws to someone. For those of you ok with 1% purchases from unsuspecting sellers, should heed my previous post - Karma is a bitch.

Mark Medlin