New guy here...1952 Mantle...is it legit?

[techkiller]

I have what i believe may be a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle 311B card.... A little history...I picked up this card at a old garage sale in a very small town. The guy running the garage sale had many old items such as authentic WWII officer uniforms, watches, tools, etc....I found this card in with the watches and asked him what he wanted for it....his reply was...hmm Mickey Mantle, i think he was pretty good right...idk....like $25? This guy had no other cards at all...just this one and def did not know what he may have had.

Here is the link to the pics of the card.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/148960835@N08/?

Initially i was very skeptical whether this is the real deal or not...but it passes every single specific attribute of being a real card....
The following is from: http://bbcemporium.com/1952-topps-mi...terfeit-guide/

-There is a missing blue pixel
-There is only a partial black border around the Yankee logo
-The top border overlaps the two side borders
-The border around Mantle’s name is not as smooth an even as the Type I
card
-The stitches on the baseball are pointed to the right
-The “t” in Right and the “s” in DiMaggio’s are nearly perfectly aligned.

It passes all of these...which i've looked through hundreds of counterfeits and they always fail on one of the above.

I really need some expert opinion here....No disrespect but if you were unaware of the above list please don't comment. I only want expert opinions as I need to make a decision on whether to send this to PSA or not. Please give me specifics on why you came to your decision.

Thanks
The New Guy

[swarmee]

Do you own any other 1952 Topps? Can you compare the card stock to them? Buy some commons for $10 each and feel the front, back, sides, and smell them. Then see if the Mantle sets off any flags for you.

[irv]

If you purchased that card for only $25 bucks and it passed your inspection, based on what you mentioned, I see no reason why you wouldn't send it in to get graded.

[techkiller]

Originally Posted by irv

If you purchased that card for only $25 bucks and it passed your inspection, based on what you mentioned, I see no reason why you wouldn't send it in to get graded.

Yeah....however....does PSA charge $1200 whether it's legit or not?

[techkiller]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Do you own any other 1952 Topps? Can you compare the card stock to them? Buy some commons for $10 each and feel the front, back, sides, and smell them. Then see if the Mantle sets off any flags for you.

I do not own any other 52 cards....from your opinion is that the only thing that could be off with it?

[irv]

Originally Posted by techkiller

Yeah....however....does PSA charge $1200 whether it's legit or not?

The prices likely went up as I remember it being $700.00 for cards valued over $10K.

Swarmee has a great idea. It would be worth it to buy one/some cheaply from E-Bay or someone on here (if available?) then compare.

Good luck whatever you do.

[Bestdj777]

No red flags when looking at it here, but I'm far from an expert and would need to see it in hand to judge. How does it smell? Old?

[techkiller]

Originally Posted by irv

The prices likely went up as I remember it being $700.00 for cards valued over $10K.

Swarmee has a great idea. It would be worth it to buy one/some cheaply from E-Bay or someone on here (if available?) then compare.

Good luck whatever you do.

Not a bad idea....however does anyone know if PSA charges if it's found to be a counterfeit? I mean that's pretty sucky if they do....$1200 for a $5 fake? I am perfectly fine paying that much if it is indeed legit. What if i send it in listing it as a counterfeit? Will they only charge the minimum then?

[techkiller]

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

No red flags when looking at it here, but I'm far from an expert and would need to see it in hand to judge. How does it smell? Old?

Yes it does smell old....

[techkiller]

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

No red flags when looking at it here, but I'm far from an expert and would need to see it in hand to judge. How does it smell? Old?

hey Chris....thanks for the feedback...what do you think it would grade out as? I was thinking probably 4-5?

[bnorth]

Now I could be wrong but it looks as real as a $3 bill to me. For the condition the front is way too white. The entire back looks like it was printed with an inkjet printer. Could just be bad fuzzy pictures, I don't know.

I do not know if PSA charges if a card is rejected but I really hope they do. Otherwise why not send in as many fake cards as possible with no recourse.

[irv]

Originally Posted by techkiller

Not a bad idea....however does anyone know if PSA charges if it's found to be a counterfeit? I mean that's pretty sucky if they do....$1200 for a $5 fake? I am perfectly fine paying that much if it is indeed legit. What if i send it in listing it as a counterfeit? Will they only charge the minimum then?

They will only charge u that amount if it is real and in their opinion, worth over $10K.
If it is a fake, I can't imagine it being anymore than $20 or less?

[1952boyntoncollector]

I find it hard to believe its real...but yeah if you send to psa they will charge you less than 100 bucks if its fake.....you can give them a call and ask as well

[swarmee]

Is the front surface scuffed or only discolored? I would think 3-4 but with elite front centering. It looks authentic to me.

PSA will charge you the $800 if you value it at $20,000 raw whether it is fake or real. That's the authentication that you're paying them for, and they're paying the insurance that they're not wrong and in case of damage during the grading process.

I've got some 1952s I will send you and you can check them out. It's hard to fake glossiness, card stock, paper grain, and printing techniques.

[irv]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Now I could be wrong but it looks as real as a $3 bill to me. For the condition the front is way too white. The entire back looks like it was printed with an inkjet printer. Could just be bad fuzzy pictures, I don't know.

I do not know if PSA charges if a card is rejected but I really hope they do. Otherwise why not send in as many fake cards as possible with no recourse.

I didn't offer my opinion but I thought the same thing, Ben. Something just looks off to me without actually being able to place my finger on it?

[techkiller]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Is the front surface scuffed or only discolored? I would think 3-4 but with elite front centering. It looks authentic to me.

PSA will charge you the $800 if you value it at $20,000 raw whether it is fake or real. That's the authentication that you're paying them for, and they're paying the insurance that they're not wrong and in case of damage during the grading process.

I've got some 1952s I will send you and you can check them out. It's hard to fake glossiness, card stock, paper grain, and printing techniques.

It's just scuffed def not dis-colored

[nat]

I don't have any opinion about whether it's real or not

____________________________________________
Didn't think of that. Is general card-authentication procedure kosher to post?

[irv]

Originally Posted by techkiller

It's just scuffed def not dis-colored

John, don't be discouraged by the lack of feedback on what some think whether your card is fake or not.
More than a few come on here looking for info on cards but until they have proven to be legit members/collectors, most don't like to divulge info to them, which would only help them become better forgers/scammers.

This guy, although it is only my opinion, struck me as someone like that.
4 posts then never heard from again?
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=243499

[ALR-bishop]

I have both versions of the Mantle. One was graded when I bought it, the other not. Before finalizing the purchase of the ungraded card I sent it to Levi Bleam at 707 Spotscards. I would actually trust his opinion over any grader at any service when it comes to 52 cards in general and Mantle specifically. Plus, despite his reputation for high prices, he is completely trustworthy and honest. He did not charge me for his review ( it turned out to be good), but I have been a long time customer. You can contact him through his 707 web site. Not sure if he would do a review for someone he did not have experience with.

Don"t know where you live but he does attend some shows. His schedule may be on his web site

[techkiller]

Originally Posted by irv

John, don't be discouraged by the lack of feedback on what some think whether your card is fake or not.
More than a few come on here looking for info on cards but until they have proven to be legit members/collectors, most don't like to divulge info to them, which would only help them become better forgers/scammers.

This guy, although it is only my opinion, struck me as someone like that.
4 posts then never heard from again?
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=243499

That makes sense....i have a full time job and better things to do than try and replicate baseball cards So...i've heard different things...Will PSA charge the same amount whether it's real or fake?

[techkiller]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

I have both versions of the Mantle. One was graded when I bought it, the other not. Before finalizing the purchase of the ungraded card I sent it to Levi Bleam at 707 Spotscards. I would actually trust his opinion over any grader at any service when it comes to 52 cards in general and Mantle specifically. Plus, despite his reputation for high prices, he is completely trustworthy and honest. He did not charge me for his review ( it turned out to be good), but I have been a long time customer. You can contact him through his 707 web site. Not sure if he would do a review for someone he did not have experience with.

Don"t know where you live but he does attend some shows. His schedule may be on his web site

I live in michigan and THANKS for that info. Obviously i would need his opinion in person as I just wouldn't trust any personal entity to just ship it to.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by techkiller

That makes sense....i have a full time job and better things to do than try and replicate baseball cards So...i've heard different things...Will PSA charge the same amount whether it's real or fake?

To be 100% sure what they do just go to the PSA website and get their contact info and contact them.

[techkiller]

Originally Posted by bnorth

To be 100% sure what they do just go to the PSA website and get their contact info and contact them.

Yeah i plan on doing that tomorrow. Just figured somebody on here would probably be able to give me an accurate answer tonight.

[irv]

Swarmee, (John) is likely right as he has a ton of experience.

This may help also but like Ben just stated, give them a call.
https://www.psacard.com/fees/preview

[techkiller]

Originally Posted by irv

Swarmee, (John) is likely right as he has a ton of experience.

This may help also but like Ben just stated, give them a call.
https://www.psacard.com/fees/preview

Thanks for the heads up and yeah....i REALLY hope he is right haha.

It would def rank as my #1 card story and possibly any other story of my life...other than my son being born.

[swarmee]

He means I'm probably right about PSA taking $800 no matter what. ;-)

[Stonepony]

I believe the card is fake. It overall doesn't look " right " to me. Also, the bat has the white area above his hands- seen on sophisticated fakes.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

I believe the card is fake. It overall doesn't look " right " to me. Also, the bat has the white area above his hands- seen on sophisticated fakes.

fakes always have decent centering too

[CW]

Nothing is really screaming at me that this is a fake other than the near perfect centering and the yellow around the Yankees logo looks a bit brighter compared to a known legit copy (this could be from the photo, though). Another odd factor is the unnatural perfectly rounded bottom corners. I own cards with rounded corners, so it's not uncommon, but the color and wear on the white borders doesn't really match the wear of the corners, as if the card may have been artificially aged. Lack of creasing is also strange. I'm 50/50 on it.

Thanks for providing such good pictures to study, and please, even if the card is determined to be a fake, come back here to let us all know the result. That would be a nice score if it turns out to be real, so good luck!

BTW, I will mention that with the rounded corners, the surface scuffing, and the stain in the upper right corner area, you would be likely to get a 2 or maybe a 3 from PSA, although most collectors would pay a big premium for the centering, so it's still a $20K card, give or take, if it's real.

Also, if you submit to PSA you can choose to have it graded with no qualifiers, as it would likely get an ST qualifier for the stain. Keep in mind this would also knock the grade down a grade or two. For example, if you go with qualifiers, the card may grade as a 3 ST. If you request no qualifiers, PSA may give it a straight 2 or even a 1.

Most collectors would prefer a card without a qualifier, and if you do more research with the search function you can probably find some prior discussions on qualifiers to help with your decision.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by CW

Nothing is really screaming at me that this is a fake other than the near perfect centering and the yellow around the Yankees logo looks a bit brighter compared to a known legit copy (this could be from the photo, though). .

I agree with the front centering screaming fake.....the back centering is off l/r though....that is not as typical with the fakes.

[Prof_Plum]

Not an expert but if we're taking a poll, I'd vote fake. Front centering is almost too good. The yellow of the box doesn't seem to match the yellow of the bat. There seems to be more of an orange-ish tint to the box. Also considering the scruffiness of the surface, I'd expect more wear elsewhere, e.g. the corners.

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by techkiller

hey Chris....thanks for the feedback...what do you think it would grade out as? I was thinking probably 4-5?

I couldn't even fathom a guess. Whenever I submit anything I think is a 3 or 4, I get "Authentic", so I clearly don't know the game at all . I think comparing it to some other 52s is a good next step. The centering isn't typical of a real card but still not seeing anything that jumps out as wrong--it's harder to detect fakes for me when the condition is better as the artificial wear on most of them really stands out.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

I believe the card is fake. It overall doesn't look " right " to me. Also, the bat has the white area above his hands- seen on sophisticated fakes.

I was thinking the same thing. The yellow seems to be off also...but could be the scans. It is hard to tell more given the info supplied.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by techkiller

I have what i believe may be a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle 311B card.... A little history...I picked up this card at a old garage sale in a very small town. The guy running the garage sale had many old items such as authentic WWII officer uniforms, watches, tools, etc....I found this card in with the watches and asked him what he wanted for it....his reply was...hmm Mickey Mantle, i think he was pretty good right...idk....like $25? This guy had no other cards at all...just this one and def did not know what he may have had.

Here is the link to the pics of the card.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/148960835@N08/?

Initially i was very skeptical whether this is the real deal or not...but it passes every single specific attribute of being a real card....
The following is from: http://bbcemporium.com/1952-topps-mi...terfeit-guide/

-There is a missing blue pixel
-There is only a partial black border around the Yankee logo
-The top border overlaps the two side borders
-The border around Mantle’s name is not as smooth an even as the Type I
card
-The stitches on the baseball are pointed to the right
-The “t” in Right and the “s” in DiMaggio’s are nearly perfectly aligned.

It passes all of these...which i've looked through hundreds of counterfeits and they always fail on one of the above.

I really need some expert opinion here....No disrespect but if you were unaware of the above list please don't comment. I only want expert opinions as I need to make a decision on whether to send this to PSA or not. Please give me specifics on why you came to your decision.

Thanks
The New Guy

To save the PSA fees at first you could also post your location, maybe someone is close and could meet up with you. They could bring a known real 52 Topps card and a loupe to compare the 2 cards. Then if you and someone that knows 52 Topps think it is real you could then send it off to PSA.

[techkiller]

I spoke to PSA and they told me they would only charge me the minimum if it was not a legit 52 Mantle. They would call me and let me know it was real and give me the opportunity to pay the fee. They told me to just mark it as a 52 Mantle but put the declared value at like $5 when sending it in.

[swarmee]

Wow, that's interesting. Glad to hear they're making it easier to validate cards that are possibly authentic.

[JTysver]

Looks real to me.
I always look to see if you can see the dot pattern on it.
That is unique to it being printed by four color process. This has it.
Generally, if this was printed another way or copied from another card, it would not have the same clarity of pattern or the pattern would be more random.

[pawpawdiv9]

I looked at your pics and compared it to mine. Well- I am on the side of 'not good'.
I agree the orangy color is a major throw-off for starts.
next is the skin tone/color is way glossy or vibrant in some areas.
Then I noticed a slight difference in the bibb rim at/under, looks darker?
Then, I see the bat is whitened or scuffed all up, looks odd?
I also thought some spots were a bit too white as well.
Kinda resembles those late East Coast reprints??? Those have the orangy tint.
Those are some I see, but you do have a lot of positives to prove other-wise.

[1952boyntoncollector]

with all of these varied opinions....we can all agree the value of PSA and third party graders.

[techkiller]

I just want to say a BIG THANK YOU to all of you who have commented. I'm definitly sending it in to PSA.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

with all of these varied opinions....we can all agree the value of PSA and third party graders.

We have varied opinions because we are just looking at pictures. A few seconds in hand and many of us could give a 100% positive good or bad.

[ALR-bishop]

If you handed these pictures only to every grader at PSA you would likely get the same varied opinions, or no opinion at all without card in hand.

But given what the OP paid for the card, if it is real and he ever intends to sell it, he should get it graded, no question

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

If you handed these pictures only to every grader at PSA you would likely get the same varied opinions, or no opinion at all without card in hand.

But given what the OP paid for the card, if it is real and he ever intends to sell it, he should get it graded, no question

so in other words its good there are third party graders..

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

so in other words its good there are third party graders..

Yes it is in some situations.

[ALR-bishop]

Those look to me to be your words Jake

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Those look to me to be your words Jake

And yours as well..

[pawpawdiv9]

I am going on board here to say-- that if I had something that's possible worth 10K++ and not know if its real or not??
Hell yeah, I am going to get that looked at You already took the 1st step by asking members here, some say yes, some no.
As you probably already decided, send it in.

[Leon]

I am skeptical due to absolute 50/50 centering.....Not sure I ever remember when I have seen absolute dead on centering like that. Maybe once or twice out of a thousand cards?

[swarmee]

My initial response was if the original poster went back to the yard sale an hour later and a different 52 Mantle was in the same box, it would likely be a fake...

[Volod]

Originally Posted by swarmee

My initial response was if the original poster went back to the yard sale an hour later and a different 52 Mantle was in the same box, it would likely be a fake...

...and the yard seller would explain that he went back into his attic and found another musty box with another '52 Mantle in it - and boy, was he surprised.