Am I misunderstanding?

midmo · #1 10-10-2017, 10:49 PM

I'd recommend to just ask the seller/trader if there are any creases, surface wrinkles, etc that can't be seen in the photos before making a transaction.

toledo_mudhen · #2 10-11-2017, 04:23 AM

Been looking at cards Raw, TPG, and TPG submission returns for lots of years and have come to following conclusions :

1.) ANY issues with card (stain, crease, wrinkle, really bad centers, miscut, corners that aren't sharp) puts the cap at VG-EX - Period

2.) It is not possible for a normal human to correctly assess 10 out 10 raw cards as NRMT - So I dont acknowledge the 7 (NRMT) designation on anything raw that I buy or sell

3.) EX & EXMT - this is where all of the good looking raw cards reside.

EX cards should have nice corners (maybe very slight dings on corners) and good centers and most normal persons would think they should grade higher.

EXMT cards are truly high end examples of EX and most normal persons would try and call them as NRMT

So once you resign yourself to the fact that you cant accurately grade a card as NRMT (or above) - and cards with issues aren't ever any better than VG-EX then the opinion grading process becomes much easier and for the most part you wont ever be disappointed on TPG submissions and occasionally you will get a few back that grade better than your initial assessment.

So there you have it - a 3 step process - really easy

JollyElm · #3 10-11-2017, 04:38 AM

Most sellers, especially on ebay, overgrade their cards. We all know it, but at least there are pictures present, so you can see the corners and what not and judge each card for yourself. When not-visible-in-the-scan factors (such as creases) are present, there is no way in heck they should be calling a card EX. That is just plainly ridiculous and most likely a blatant attempt to screw you over.

iwantitiwinit · #4 10-11-2017, 04:50 AM

Don't buy raw cards.

BruceinGa · #5 10-11-2017, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

Don't buy raw cards.

+1

wdwfan · #6 10-11-2017, 11:28 AM

I don't deal with the whole 'graded' thing and will only buy raw. Unless of course, it's a big name RC like Clemente or Koufax or something. I might consider buying raw then. But otherwise, it's raw for me.

Never bought graded, never sold graded. Don't want anything to do with graded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

Don't buy raw cards.

ls7plus · #7 10-12-2017, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdwfan

I don't deal with the whole 'graded' thing and will only buy raw. Unless of course, it's a big name RC like Clemente or Koufax or something. I might consider buying raw then. But otherwise, it's raw for me.

Never bought graded, never sold graded. Don't want anything to do with graded.

Unless you have the opportunity to examine raw cards in person and a loupe to carefully examine the cards, especially the edges (scrupulously avoiding those with razor sharp edges or corners pinched at the top, indicating the card has been put through a paper mill/press, enlarged and then cut back to size with corner defects removed to simulate a NrMt or better appearance), buying raw cards, notably expensive ones, is indeed a practice to be avoided, especially if the card's retention or appreciation of value means anything to you. The card doctors are still out there, even with graded cards (I recently saw a 1907 Wolverine News Ty Cobb rookie--with significant surface markings to establish there was no doubt whatsoever that it was the same card-- go from SGC poor to SGC Ex when someone was able to remove some light writing from the low end of the card without SGC detecting it), but buying graded does offer some significant assurance of authenticity and thus acceptance in the marketplace.

Just some words to the wise,

Larry

savedfrommyspokes · #8 10-11-2017, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

Don't buy raw cards.

Between a quarter to a third of the PSA 5 and 6 52 Topps cards I possess have some sort of small crease, albeit "just" a wrinkle.

I get when buying raw lots singles on ebay that even the most reputable sellers may miss one small crease or wrinkle out of a large number of cards. It happens.

But what I do not understand are how some of these ebay sellers can continue to sell raw EX cards which consistently have small creases/wrinkles and not get dinged via feedback and lose business......unless now a days most buyers simply just accept EX as the new VG-EX.

I have bought a fair number of raw lots advertised as "EX or better" and "crease free" only to receive a lot where the majority of cards come with small creases/wrinkles. Typically the seller in a case like this gets defensive, makes some excuses and says in so many words "tough". My next response is will you be providing the return label or is ebay. I can never seem to decide if describing a crease riddled lot/single card as EX is just the seller being oblivious or it is intentional.

End rant.

Leon · #9 10-12-2017, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

Don't buy raw cards.

LOL....Ex cards shouldn't have a crease.

rhettyeakley · #10 10-13-2017, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

Don't buy raw cards.

Good luck with this, my collection wouldn't be 1/100th what it is today if I lived by these words.

You have gotten some good advice here. The one thing I would add is to just simply point out that (in regards to Pre-WW2 cards) EX is actually a pretty high grade.

I personally tend to think of an 5 (EX) pre-war card the same way I think of a 7 to 7.5 (NM to NM+) post-war vintage card. It in many cases is about as nice of a card as one can possibly expect to find for some issues-- even more true when you take out the Goudey, Play Ball and a few other sets that have survived in better condition than the norm for the era.

Touch'EmAll · #11 10-13-2017, 07:18 PM

Have fun with the raw cards, if you like. However, life as we know it today in this hobby often deals with graded cards. Anything you might call close to "investment" type, you might want to consider purchasing graded. Its no fun to pony up for a nice raw card, then someday later realize its not quite what you thought.

Stampsfan · #12 10-14-2017, 04:49 AM

A card with a crease just isn't very Excellent...

pokerplyr80 · #13 10-11-2017, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midmo

I'd recommend to just ask the seller/trader if there are any creases, surface wrinkles, etc that can't be seen in the photos before making a transaction.

This. If the card arrived creased after you've been told it wasn't you can simply return as the card did not arrive as described.

wdwfan · #14 10-11-2017, 05:13 PM

I will be doing it from now on. What I've been doing is just asking if the card is Ex to NM because that's what I look for. I never though creased would be considered Ex, but I guess some people do.

From now on, though, I'll be asking if there's any creases, bends, etc in the card.

With the few I've gotten thus far (about 6-8), I've just put them in my set and marked that number as needing an upgrade. I'll just leave the creased ones in there for now then pick up a better copy later and toss the creased one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by midmo

I'd recommend to just ask the seller/trader if there are any creases, surface wrinkles, etc that can't be seen in the photos before making a transaction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

This. If the card arrived creased after you've been told it wasn't you can simply return as the card did not arrive as described.

midmo · #15 10-11-2017, 05:33 PM

Then there's times like last night when I sent a seller a message asking about issues and by the time I saw his response the card had already sold. You can't win em all.