The final straw(s)

alexanderautographs · #1 10-19-2017, 09:06 AM

How sad. Much as I hate being tarred as one of those "greedy auctioneers", you need to take a couple of things into consideration:

- Auctions compete fiercely for material! Over the years, competition between auctioneers has caused consignment rates to go down...and forced buyer premiums up. So, you have to factor in that added cost when you bid.
- Expenses are way up. I am amazed that guys like REA can afford to publish and mail such monster catalogs! Never mind labor, rent, shipping. That postcard sent by certified mail costs about six bucks, so there you're being stuck.
- eBay is a den of thieves and cheapskates. Buy at reputable auctions, also invaluable.com and liveauctioneers.com.

Finally, I was privileged to have known Charles Hamilton, dean of autograph auctioneers and authentications. He wrote (paraphrased): "How boring this pursuit would be if not for the occasional fraud and forgery to add spice to the chase!"

HexsHeroes · #2 10-19-2017, 09:46 AM

. . .

I would be grateful if you would add me to the (growing) list of interested,
potential Net54 buyers of some of your collection's autographs.
My collection is at a point where purchase of one "want list" item qualifies for
consideration as a "great year", and any more than that counts as "too good
to be true".

Scott Garner · #3 10-19-2017, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HexsHeroes

. . .

I would be grateful if you would add me to the (growing) list of interested,
potential Net54 buyers of some of your collection's autographs.
My collection is at a point where purchase of one "want list" item qualifies for
consideration as a "great year", and any more than that counts as "too good
to be true".

Please add me to this list as well. I have a short want list, but you never know...

thetruthisoutthere · #4 10-19-2017, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexanderautographs

Buy at reputable auctions, also invaluable.com and liveauctioneers.com.

Really? It didn't take long to find a few Mantle forgeries on those sites.

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item...hed-photograph

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item...-signed-plaque

https://www.invaluable.com/auction-l...0-c-c0848ec824

btcarfagno · #5 10-19-2017, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Really?

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item...hed-photograph

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item...-signed-plaque

https://www.invaluable.com/auction-l...0-c-c0848ec824

Those are scary.

Live Auctioneers/Invaluable/Proxibid may not be quite the cesspool that Ebay is for these things...but the fakes do make pretty regular appearances.

Tom C

thetruthisoutthere · #6 10-19-2017, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

Those are scary.

Live Auctioneers/Invaluable/Proxibid may not be quite the cesspool that Ebay is for these things...but the fakes do make pretty regular appearances.

Tom C

Yes they do, Tom.

Obvious forgeries, too.

thetruthisoutthere · #7 10-19-2017, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Really? It didn't take long to find a few Mantle forgeries on those sites.

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item...hed-photograph

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item...-signed-plaque

https://www.invaluable.com/auction-l...0-c-c0848ec824

I also noticed on those auction sites, the Buyer's Premium can range anywhere from 27% to 33%. Is that normal?

tazdmb · #8 10-19-2017, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexanderautographs

How sad. Much as I hate being tarred as one of those "greedy auctioneers"

Finally, I was privileged to have known Charles Hamilton, dean of autograph auctioneers and authentications. He wrote (paraphrased): "How boring this pursuit would be if not for the occasional fraud and forgery to add spice to the chase!"

While I agree you have to be "Greedy" to be an auctioneer as you eat what you kill. That being said, when I consign things to auction, I personally feel it is obnoxious to have to pay a consignor fee to an auction fee that is already making 20% on the back-end. The variable costs to add my stuff is minimal and does not justify 20%, knowing that the item will sell for less than FMV as the buyer will consider the juice before making a bid.

I much rather buy and sell things here at close to FMV or consign to auction houses with minimal/no consignment fee.

As for Hamilton's quote, i think we are way past "occasional".

brooklynbaseball · #9 10-19-2017, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tazdmb

While I agree you have to be "Greedy" to be an auctioneer as you eat what you kill. That being said, when I consign things to auction, I personally feel it is obnoxious to have to pay a consignor fee to an auction fee that is already making 20% on the back-end. The variable costs to add my stuff is minimal and does not justify 20%, knowing that the item will sell for less than FMV as the buyer will consider the juice before making a bid.

I much rather buy and sell things here at close to FMV or consign to auction houses with minimal/no consignment fee.

As for Hamilton's quote, i think we are way past "occasional".

And not to mention, on top of the buyers premium, many auction houses pad the shipping costs by 2 or 3 times. I understand the costs associated with running an auction, printing catalogues, labor costs etc, but blatant gouging to get every last cent out of a buyer is obscene.

brooklynbaseball · #10 10-19-2017, 12:46 PM

For those who have expressed interest in my collection, I am going to attempt to sell my full (up until the past couple of years) signed plaque set together as one unit. I realize that most would rather "chase" the set slowly, but as I have been amassing the set for so long, I would rather try to keep it together. Almost every card is slabbed, those that aren't (maybe 5%) have stickers from TriStar, Mab, or the like. I additionally have hundreds of duplicates, both in raw and slabbed form. I also would like to attempt to sell my full Perez Steele hof set (sans Satchel Paige, which I sold, expecting to purchase a better quality one) as one lot also. All of the "higher ticket" cards have been authenticated, and while the signed cards are not 100% of the same printed set, all of the original cards are included. I also have a 500 home run signed baseball set, Including Ruth, Ott, and Foxx, excluding Pujols, Ortiz, and maybe one or two others. That set I will probably break up. The rest of my "stuff", includes many signed Mickey Mantle items, signed photos affixed to plaques (with ORIGINAL Goldin coa's), baseballs, and probably another closet full of items that I have not touched since Superstorm Sandy hit here (yes, I lost quite a bit there too). I will be happy to provide a detailed list to anyone that would like to look my inventory over, but it will most likely take me a couple of weeks to complete a spreadsheet, scan, photograph, and retrieve items from safekeeping. I do list some items on ebay pretty regularly, and the asking prices are often high, but I am always willing to negotiate off of those listings. I do appreciate the input and comments (with one noticeable exception), and to Mr Williams, Richard Simon and those of you on here who I have had the pleasure of exchanging correspondence over the years, your work educating the community is one of the few things I can look back on with a smile. From personal experience, I know that there are those that will come after you for calling them out. You provide a service here, and while I am unsure of the long term future of the signed memorabilia industry, I am appreciative for the work you have done...

alexanderautographs · #11 10-19-2017, 12:52 PM

Really suggest you find an an on-line auctioneer with access to invaluable and liveauctioneers, work hard for a low rate, reserve with no buy-in fee, and watch him. Auctioneers have access to markets you can't imagine, and actually earn their fees.

alexanderautographs · #12 10-19-2017, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brooklynbaseball

And not to mention, on top of the buyers premium, many auction houses pad the shipping costs by 2 or 3 times. I understand the costs associated with running an auction, printing catalogues, labor costs etc, but blatant gouging to get every last cent out of a buyer is obscene.

It's an old auction game...you never know the shipping until you get the bill! Christie's London once whacked me for $320 to send a Beatles signed album page. True story. Often you can persuade them to use your own Fedex number, if you have one, and waive all claims.

Hankphenom · #13 10-19-2017, 12:24 PM

Seems to me that it's been about 15 years since anyone buying an autograph without a legit TPA that wasn't more or less self-authenticating should be well aware of the risk they're taking. On the selling side, even with the fees involved, desirable autographs should do very well over their value just a few years ago. The proliferation of reputable authentication services and auction houses and other sales venues (Net54 BST!) have improved the hobby greatly from the "wild west" days. Problems, sure, but in general I'd say the hobby is getting better, not worse.

alexanderautographs · #14 10-19-2017, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tazdmb

While I agree you have to be "Greedy" to be an auctioneer as you eat what you kill. That being said, when I consign things to auction, I personally feel it is obnoxious to have to pay a consignor fee to an auction fee that is already making 20% on the back-end. The variable costs to add my stuff is minimal and does not justify 20%, knowing that the item will sell for less than FMV as the buyer will consider the juice before making a bid.

I much rather buy and sell things here at close to FMV or consign to auction houses with minimal/no consignment fee.

As for Hamilton's quote, i think we are way past "occasional".

Thanks for your input. Remember that in the good old days, consignment rates were 10% and the BP was perhaps 10-15%. That was twenty years ago. Now, with prices for AVERAGE material really pretty much the same, the net dollars the auctioneer brings in are relatively unchanged. Yes, it's true. And for a really large collection, some auctioneer charges the seller a 5%, 0%, or even offers a negative commission. At the end of the day, it's still about 20-25%. Also- factor in the fact that greedy proxy bidding sites whack the auctioneer for 5%, credit card companies get 2.5%, Paypal the same.

Believe me, if you think the average auctioneer drives a Rolls, you're way wrong. We do this for the same reason you do - we love the material.

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