Roy hallady r.i.p

Scott Garner · #1 11-07-2017, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seanofjapan

Career Cy Young awards: Halladay 2, Nolan Ryan 0.

Not a reliable basis for comparison to be sure as even Pete Vukovich won more Cy Youngs than Nolan Ryan, but still wroth mentioning. Ryan was good for a very long time but never the best. Halladay was the best but for a shorter time.

I'm personally of the view that it makes no sense for the HOF to overvalue longevity over dominance. There are tons of guys in the 2,000 hit club who were way better at their peak than guys in the 3,000 hit club (and other clubs) but aren't in the Hall.

Yawn...
This is not a new argument, but Ryan was also the victim of playing for 2 teams that didn't score runs (Angels, Astros) for 18 years.

I know because I had to endure the indignity of being a season ticket holder with the Angels for 8 years during the 1970's and watch this play out on a daily basis...
Believe me, he dominated the opposing hitters. His teammates just didn't score runs to reward him with wins the majority of time.

BTW, Nolan was robbed of a Cy Young award in 1973 and 1977.
Take a look again. He just happened to not play for a major market team that wasn't followed as much as others...

Fred · #2 11-07-2017, 10:54 PM

Punch in the gut day. So sad.

seanofjapan · #3 11-07-2017, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Yawn...
This is not a new argument, but Ryan was also the victim of playing for 2 teams that didn't score runs (Angels, Astros) for 18 years.

I know because I had to endure the indignity of being a season ticket holder with the Angels for 8 years during the 1970's...

BTW, Nolan was robbed of a Cy Young award in 1973 and 1977.
Take a look again. He just happened to play for a team that wasn't followed as much as others...

I'm not sure how that is relevant to a Ryan-Halladay comparison though. Halladay spent most of his career playing for basement dwelling Blue Jays teams which had notoriously weak offenses and almost no following outside of Canada.

My overall point isn't to take anything away from Ryan, but more to question the logic of discounting Halladay's HOF credentials just because he didn't amass a bigger pile of stats (wins, etc) by adding a few mediocre seasons to the end of his career.

Exhibitman · #4 11-08-2017, 12:01 AM

Doc’s 7 year peak is consistent with the average HOFer. I think he will get in on the strength of 2 Cy Young awards, a perfect game and one of only two postseason no hitters. The stat padding of a few more years doesn’t matter.

Scott Garner · #5 11-08-2017, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seanofjapan

I'm not sure how that is relevant to a Ryan-Halladay comparison though. Halladay spent most of his career playing for basement dwelling Blue Jays teams which had notoriously weak offenses and almost no following outside of Canada.

My overall point isn't to take anything away from Ryan, but more to question the logic of discounting Halladay's HOF credentials just because he didn't amass a bigger pile of stats (wins, etc) by adding a few mediocre seasons to the end of his career.

Sean,
Your point about playing in Toronto is well taken.
Actually, I wouldn't discount Doc Halladay's stats at all.
IMHO he is a HOF'er based on the fact that he had twice as many wins as losses, 2 Cy Young's, excellent post season performer, All Star, led the league in various pitching stats etc., etc.
Halliday was one of the pitchers I would always pay to watch pitch.
Very sad day for baseball fans everywhere indeed....

packs · #6 11-08-2017, 08:21 AM

Halladay was a unique pitcher for his time and I have no doubt he will be enshrined. He led the league in complete games 5 years in a row and 7 times overall. Shutouts 3 years in a row and 4 times overall. He only played 16 years, so for nearly half of them he completed more games than anyone and for a quarter of them he shutout more games than anyone. Two Cy Youngs and two more second place finishes. What else does a guy have to do?

h2oya311 · #7 11-08-2017, 09:30 AM

need more pics of Doc vs. arguments about Nolan Ryan:

jb217676 · #8 11-08-2017, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h2oya311

need more pics of Doc vs. arguments about Nolan Ryan:

Derek, you'll need to get one of Doc's 1995 Signature Rookies for your pre-rookie collection. He has a regular card, signed card and signed 8" x 10" redemption photo. I picked up one of the signed 8" x 10" photos, pictures Doc in his Dunedin Blue Jays uniform.

Fred · #9 11-08-2017, 10:06 AM

Wow, the Doc passes on and people are going to bring up who's a better pitcher.... how does that happen?

If I were a HOF voter he'd have my vote, not because he is gone but because he was a great pitcher. Not really sure how that is relevant to this thread. He's gone, so very sad.

h2oya311 · #10 11-08-2017, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jb217676

Derek, you'll need to get one of Doc's 1995 Signature Rookies for your pre-rookie collection. He has a regular card, signed card and signed 8" x 10" redemption photo. I picked up one of the signed 8" x 10" photos, pictures Doc in his Dunedin Blue Jays uniform.

Hmm...I was aware of the following: 1996 Best Dunedin, 1996 Dunedin Team Issue, and 1996 Dunedin Team Issue Update, but didn't know he had a card issued from 1995.

Thanks for the heads-up!