RMY Auction - Conlon Prints

Snapolit1 · #1 12-21-2017, 05:35 PM

Ok. Henry is beyond question a very legit guy. I get that. But I always thought the point of an authenticator is that they are an impartial third party to the transaction. No skin in the game so to speak.

Runscott · #2 12-21-2017, 06:07 PM

Henry doesn't need the PSA authentication to sell his stuff; however, since everyone knows he does the PSA authentication, it might make people wonder if there was no PSA Loa with his auctions. It is an odd situation to be in as a seller.

But the basic selling situation is no different than Rhys including his Loa with photos.

It is also relatively no different than me, Ben or David including our 'word' when we sell;e.g-if I bought a photo from David or Ben I would tell the next owner where it came from if they doubted my personal level of expertise (i am not all that famous).

As long as it is only authentication the buyer is concerned about, it all comes down to trust in the seller's skills as an authenticator.

Runscott · #3 12-21-2017, 06:08 PM

Grading is a different thing, as grading your own cards or photos adds incentive for manipulation.

Exhibitman · #4 12-21-2017, 06:41 PM

I guess it comes down to integrity and expertise. Frankly, when it comes to something other than assessing the condition of a card, there are issues that go beyond simply taking the item at face value and judging condition. If there is someone who has expertise and a good reputation, there is nothing wrong that person stating a position; give the opinion the credence or lack of credence that you wish. I am not willing to say that financial interest = dishonesty. It may indicate a need to look closer.

The underlying issue is anxiety caused by lack of expertise. With all due respect, if you are so unschooled in what you are buying that you have to place blind faith in a third party, you need to do some more homework before you jump in. One nit that I do tend to agree with picking is the lack of transparency in the process and the marketing. I'm all for showing your work, so to speak, in these situations. If the authenticator has a financial interest, I want to know and I will engage in some further due diligence if I can. If all the info is up front, the burden to investigate more is on the bidder.

I recently had an analogous situation with an autograph authentication. I couldn't get a TPG to issue a COA when I first got the item years ago because there were so few exemplars out there. So I did a ton of my own research and found enough signed items over the years that I was completely comfortable with offering the item as signed. I put that opinion up, in writing and with back-up documentation, when I sold the item. If the buyer believes in the quality of my research and agrees with my opinion, that's all that counts.

Snapolit1 · #5 12-21-2017, 06:48 PM

I hear what you guys are saying, but Henry is not the
Same as one of you expressing an opinion. He is THE opinion in the field. For THE opinion in the field to be grading stuff that he is then going to put up for sale... we�ll Ive expressed my opinion. No offense to any of you, but none of your opinions are the be all and end all. His are.

Snapolit1 · #6 12-21-2017, 06:52 PM

Whether something is a type 1 photo is an opinion. It is not a fact. In some cases there is good evidence and in some cases it is sketchy. It is an educated opinion. If any of you are 100% sure looking at scans that somethingnisna Type 1 photograph, well more power to you.
Steve A. posted a Gehrig photo here last month and some of the most learned opinions on this board disagreed as to whether is was Type 1, 2 or 3. It’s not so simple.

Forever Young · #7 12-22-2017, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Whether something is a type 1 photo is an opinion. It is not a fact. In some cases there is good evidence and in some cases it is sketchy. It is an educated opinion. If any of you are 100% sure looking at scans that somethingnisna Type 1 photograph, well more power to you.
Steve A. posted a Gehrig photo here last month and some of the most learned opinions on this board disagreed as to whether is was Type 1, 2 or 3. It’s not so simple.

1) "Whether something is a type 1 photo is an opinion. It is not a fact."
This blanket statement is WRONG Imo

I, in fact, think photos are one of the things in the hobby that can be authenticated the tightest.
2)”If any of you are 100% sure looking at scans that something isna Type 1 photograph, well more power to you. “
THIS IS A SCENAREO ONLINE-diff than above. There is no way to tell 100 percent online I would agree. You can make educated conclusions but with fake stamps, fake aging of paper,,etc.. I would agree. Pictures can also be photo shopped or manipulated. this of course domes not go fir photo authentication in general.. just online.

If you think the photo hobby is so misguided.. why are you collecting the stuff? Why not collect something else that is more defined like.. cards, game used and autographs...

yikes

I just don't get the negativity. Since you have singled out Henry.. can you give an example in the last auction where he was wrong or that he abused some magical power for his benefit? As stated, No one bats 100 percent.. but some have much higher averages

Exhibitman · #8 12-23-2017, 08:30 AM

Well, Scott...For boxing cards my opinion is pretty much the opinion (the TPGs use my book or call me) so I have some experience with this exact situation. Every time I sell an item I am expressing my opinion on it and to the small coterie of boxing collectors it carries weight even with self interest, because I am rigorous in my research and honest with my opinion and people know it. That said it is still an opinion and opinions are like buttholes; we all have them. Except, apparently, Kim Jong Un.

Runscott · #9 12-21-2017, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

No offense to any of you, but none of your opinions are the be all and end all. His are.

That is only true if, as a potential buyer, you think it is true. As long as you have an opinion one way or the other as to his expertise, then this loa stuff is irrelevant. It's the same for Rhys' buyers and the same for mine or David's or yours or anyone else's. That PSA LOA is only magical if a buyer thinks it is. (It is not magical to me, but Henry's expertise is somewhat - the two just happen to be tied together).

But I have to admit that it is very frustrating to be absolutely positive you are right about something, and have people question you, especially if you are more than willing to consult others in the field when you are unsure about something. I'm sure Henry is that way; however, as you say, very few ever question his opinion.

Snapolit1 · #10 12-21-2017, 07:05 PM

Well to that I�d say it�s not my opinion at all. It�s the markets opinion. If there is a Babe Ruth 1918 Red Sox portrait that Henry deems Type 1, it is a $30K picture. Maybe more. If Henry says it�s Type 3 it�s a $700 picture. That�s the reality of the Marketplace. See it happen every month.

horzverti · #11 12-21-2017, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I hear what you guys are saying, but Henry is not the
Same as one of you expressing an opinion. He is THE opinion in the field. For THE opinion in the field to be grading stuff that he is then going to put up for sale... we’ll Ive expressed my opinion. No offense to any of you, but none of your opinions are the be all and end all. His are.

I appreciate what Henry Yee has done to build and advance our hobby. Henry’s early auctions were instrumental in showing the desirability and value of great vintage photos. It seemed that each new auction would bring in more $$$. The $$$ pushed for more exploration into archives. More and more super photos were rediscovered, sold and sold again. The prices continue to climb. I don’t think there is any doubt about Henry’s positive influence on the hobby. That being said, I feel that Henry Yee is an opinion in the photo field. I don’t feel that he is the opinion in the field. There are others with deep experience and expertise regarding photo format, paper stock, production means, etc. It isn’t just the sellers who are the experts. There are many collectors who really know their stuff as well. Henry’s opinion isn’t “be all and end all.”
Regarding whether it is appropriate for Henry to sell the photos he authenticates, I ask why not? Auction houses do it. Other collectors do it. It is just an opinion. If a seller also wants to assign a grade to a photo that they are selling, that is fine too. Authentication and grading are just opinions.

Runscott · #12 12-21-2017, 06:51 PM

Well-said, Adam.

I avoided the issue of less-than-highly-knowledgeable photo 'collectors' buying something based entirely on an LOA or not buying for lack thereof. Having been in this hobby for a decent amount of time now, I no longer feel it's a worthwhile expenditure of my time to be concerned about protecting such people. We've given them a zillion ideas for how to get into a hobby safely and yet there are still those whose first purchase is a $1,000 print or a T206 Cobb.

doug.goodman · #13 12-21-2017, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

No skin in the game so to speak.

Besides the fee they get paid for their "knowledge".

Those quotation marks are meant sarcastically.

Doug

Dewey · #14 12-21-2017, 09:35 PM

That Jackie Robinson 1945 UCLA pic, designated Vintage 1, sold by RMY for $1500 in March. It sold again last week by RMY for $127, this time accompanied by a PSA designation as a Type IV. Would love to know that story.

pherbener · #15 12-21-2017, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dewey

That Jackie Robinson 1945 UCLA pic, designated Vintage 1, sold by RMY for $1500 in March. It sold again last week by RMY for $127, this time accompanied by a PSA designation as a Type IV. Would love to know that story.

Not the same image. edit... actually after looking back at them, it is. My bad,,,

Forever Young · #16 12-22-2017, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pherbener

Not the same image. edit... actually after looking back at them, it is. My bad,,,

My guess is someone bought it as a vintage 1. No idea why they would do that even if they were not savvy as it is a 1939 image and the slug says 1945-prob because it was sold like that I guess. This is another example why the 2 years is relevant. I would rather have a pic off neg within two years rathe rthan later when he was a household name/many copies printed.
That said, it is not even off the original neg. They prob sent to psa and got letter and returned. Just a guess. In my opinion, it is labeled correctly by PSA as a type 4(off a dupe neg). IN THE LOWER LEFT, YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THE EDGE OF THE PHOTO IT WAS TAKEN FROM. In other words, a picture of a picture.
To Rhy's credit, he ran in the right way the second time. Like everything, Mistakes happen and it is how one reacts to it and takes care of it that matters at the end of the day. MJ didn’t even hit every game winner!

Forever Young · #17 12-22-2017, 04:23 PM

Alright.. I think I responded to everything on my naughty list. Props to RMY for a great auction. I was happy with both of my pickups. Thank you and looking forward to getting them soon. I hope you all have a safe and happy holiday break. HO HO HO! Merry Christmas! I love you all.. especially YOU Graigy Kreindler.

Dewey · #18 12-22-2017, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forever Young

To Rhy's credit, he ran in the right way the second time. Like everything, Mistakes happen and it is how one reacts to it and takes care of it that matters at the end of the day. MJ didn�t even hit every game winner!

Agreed.

The last auction was great. Look forward to 2018.

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