Another Probstein123 black eye

JollyElm · #1 12-30-2017, 09:52 PM

Made these so people can see what's being talked about. The top cards in each paring are the 'originals' and the bottoms are 'probstein-ized' and swimming in the holder from the trim job...

jordanjamesfront.jpg
jordanjamesback.jpg

The most obvious difference is on the back left, where the '1' in the '15' on the banner is sliced dramatically.

rainier2004 · #2 12-30-2017, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Made these so people can see what's being talked about. The top cards in each paring are the 'originals' and the bottoms are 'probstein-ized' and swimming in the holder from the trim job...

Attachment 300631
Attachment 300632

The most obvious difference is on the back left, where the '1' in the '15' on the banner is sliced dramatically.

Wow, that looks pretty bad IMO. Good think PSA is so trusted and we as collectors put so much blind faith into them printing money...

texmrsport · #3 12-30-2017, 10:13 PM

Thank you for posting the pictures. PSA should have done a better job grading the card. Mistakes are made and I hope they correct this one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Made these so people can see what's being talked about. The top cards in each paring are the 'originals' and the bottoms are 'probstein-ized' and swimming in the holder from the trim job...

Attachment 300631
Attachment 300632

The most obvious difference is on the back left, where the '1' in the '15' on the banner is sliced dramatically.

Pat R · #4 12-31-2017, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Made these so people can see what's being talked about. The top cards in each paring are the 'originals' and the bottoms are 'probstein-ized' and swimming in the holder from the trim job...

Attachment 300631
Attachment 300632

The most obvious difference is on the back left, where the '1' in the '15' on the banner is sliced dramatically.

But how do you explain that there is more of Lebron's hand and finger
on the back of the supposed trimmed one, almost the same amount
of difference as the 1 on the banner. The gold border and ornamental
design looks completely different on the fronts I thought that was the scans
but then it looks like two different backs with a slight shift difference on them. Something seems odd about the whole thing.

swarmee · #5 12-31-2017, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat R

But how do you explain that there is more of Lebron's hand and finger

If you look at the first card, part of the side of the card is obscured by the PSA clear prong on the side with the finger. If you compare the autographs on the front, there is no question they are the exact same card. If they made slight variations of this set that were both #/25 (one silver and one gold or something), the guys at Blowout would know.

Yes, there's a lot of exaggerated anger there, but they are great at spotting and outing cases of fraud.

Pat R · #6 12-31-2017, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee

If you look at the first card, part of the side of the card is obscured by the PSA clear prong on the side with the finger. If you compare the autographs on the front, there is no question they are the exact same card. If they made slight variations of this set that were both #/25 (one silver and one gold or something), the guys at Blowout would know.

Yes, there's a lot of exaggerated anger there, but they are great at spotting and outing cases of fraud.

Yeah I considered that but it looks like on the upper right that isn't
obscured that there is more black showing from the white rail to the border
on the 9 too but it must be because of the scans vs photo's.

Jordan-Lebron Back.jpg

Rookiemonster · #7 12-31-2017, 08:25 AM

On the original the top left corner on the back is dinged.but not in the newly graded card.
Also as pointed out ( pun intended) there is more of lebrons pointer finger showing.

I think this card has been rebacked.

Rookiemonster · #8 12-31-2017, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

On the original the top left corner on the back is dinged.but not in the newly graded card.
Also as pointed out ( pun intended) there is more of lebrons pointer finger showing.

I think this card has been rebacked.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/Baseball-/2...942%2529&rt=nc here is a link to a previous sold card numbered to 25 same card. The back to this card looks like the original PSA7. Top left corner ding and less Lebron hand then the psa 9.

We all have seen very gifted custom card made and advertised. I think someone with those skill and make a new back for this card.

Steve D · #9 12-31-2017, 07:21 PM

For an interesting twist on this, go to the blowoutcards thread and take a look at post #27. It shows the same card (#08/25), that has the same look on the top left back corner/top right front corner. It's graded a BCG 9.5. Again, the referenced corner is exactly the same as the corner on card #01/25!

This would indicate that PSA's original 7 grade on the #01/25 was probably wrong also, as they apparently used that corner as reason for the downgrade. But it apparently is not damage to the corner.....it is simply the card's design.

So, it appears that PSA originally mis-graded #01/25 as a "7". It was later trimmed by someone who also believed the corner was damaged. PSA later ignored the trimming and graded it a "9". Double-screw up by PSA. Also, extremely hilarious that someone trimmed the card, believing as PSA did that the card was damaged, when it actually was not!

Steve

MattyC · #10 12-31-2017, 08:31 AM

So despite all the Blowout Sturm und Drang, the facts seem to be: a trimmed card got past the goalie and wound up in a slab, and then on eBay.

I think as some have rightly and calmly pointed out here, to rectify this situation PSA should be contacted, and if they feel the card is a mistake, they will contact the seller, who will pull it. They also have a policy in place which allows for the buyer of the trimmed card to be reimbursed.

Seems pretty straightforward to me, in terms of how to rationally handle the situation. I don't know about a "black eye" for a high volume internet seller for merely listing the item; I don't do that for a living, yet I don't expect someone in that position to scrutinize this particular card for trimming, or somehow decide to track down a scan of the card in a prior holder, and find the trim job. It seems like a flat out mistake by the grader, and human error happens. When it does, if there's a path and process to correct it, we simply should walk that path and then see if we achieve a solution. If I were the seller I would contact PSA and initiate the process.

Exhibitman · #11 12-31-2017, 09:58 AM

I�m with Probstein on this one. If PSA screwed up PSA needs to fix it. Probstein is selling PSA�s opinion, not his own.

3-2-count · #12 12-31-2017, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I�m with Probstein on this one. If PSA screwed up PSA needs to fix it. Probstein is selling PSA�s opinion, not his own.

Agree 100%. Think of it this way. If buyers place the responsibility on the seller to handle and correct the mishaps which PSA misses such as the likes we see in this case, it would be a full time job to police with as many that reside in their slabs.

Neal · #13 12-31-2017, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I�m with Probstein on this one. If PSA screwed up PSA needs to fix it. Probstein is selling PSA�s opinion, not his own.

yup

PiratesWS1979 · #14 12-31-2017, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I’m with Probstein on this one. If PSA screwed up PSA needs to fix it. Probstein is selling PSA’s opinion, not his own.

For such an in demand card featuring Lebron and Jordan's signature, I'm sure Rick and Joe Orlando have already spoke about it. My guess as to why the auction has not been taken down is Rick took the card on consignment assuming the PSA grade was legit. Also, you can't assume the consignee was the person who did the alleged trimming.

I would bet PSA or Joe Orlando himself will purchase the card under the "grade guarantee", never to be seen again.

egbeachley · #15 12-31-2017, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I�m with Probstein on this one. If PSA screwed up PSA needs to fix it. Probstein is selling PSA�s opinion, not his own.

Agree as well. This needs to sell first in order for a price to be established so then the buyer can get reimbursement from PSA from their warranty.

rainier2004 · #16 12-31-2017, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattyC

So despite all the Blowout Sturm und Drang, the facts seem to be: a trimmed card got past the goalie and wound up in a slab, and then on eBay.

I think as some have rightly and calmly pointed out here, to rectify this situation PSA should be contacted, and if they feel the card is a mistake, they will contact the seller, who will pull it. They also have a policy in place which allows for the buyer of the trimmed card to be reimbursed.

Seems pretty straightforward to me, in terms of how to rationally handle the situation. I don't know about a "black eye" for a high volume internet seller for merely listing the item; I don't do that for a living, yet I don't expect someone in that position to scrutinize this particular card for trimming, or somehow decide to track down a scan of the card in a prior holder, and find the trim job. It seems like a flat out mistake by the grader, and human error happens. When it does, if there's a path and process to correct it, we simply should walk that path and then see if we achieve a solution. If I were the seller I would contact PSA and initiate the process.

Well said and I completely agree...I think this just shows what CAN get by PSA, no TPG should be the end all-be all and common sense and knowledge still can go a long ways in the hobby.

seablaster · #17 12-31-2017, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat R

But how do you explain that there is more of Lebron's hand and finger
on the back of the supposed trimmed one, almost the same amount
of difference as the 1 on the banner. The gold border and ornamental
design looks completely different on the fronts I thought that was the scans
but then it looks like two different backs with a slight shift difference on them. Something seems odd about the whole thing.

The earlier images of the card are photos, not scans. The Lebron finger/hand concerned me as well when you mentioned it, but if you go to the Blowout thread, the images are larger and it's easier to see.

It's the same card in my opinion...minus a portion of that edge that is.

JollyElm · #18 12-31-2017, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat R

[/B]

But how do you explain that there is more of Lebron's hand and finger
on the back of the supposed trimmed one, almost the same amount
of difference as the 1 on the banner. The gold border and ornamental
design looks completely different on the fronts I thought that was the scans
but then it looks like two different backs with a slight shift difference on them. Something seems odd about the whole thing.

Well, if I'm reading what you are saying correctly, it seems the angle of the picture plus the bright flash is adding to distorting his hand area. You can see the flash on the case right next to the area in question. Since the original bumped corner was the upper left on back, it appears they trimmed the top just a teeny bit and the left side more substantially. James shouldn't show any signs of trimming, as he is situated in the wrong place.

chalupacollects · #19 12-31-2017, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat R

[/B]

But how do you explain that there is more of Lebron's hand and finger
on the back of the supposed trimmed one, almost the same amount
of difference as the 1 on the banner. The gold border and ornamental
design looks completely different on the fronts I thought that was the scans
but then it looks like two different backs with a slight shift difference on them. Something seems odd about the whole thing.

I agree, maybe both sides were trimmed on the "9?"
Finger does look off...

clydepepper · #20 12-31-2017, 07:26 PM

probstein is DEAD to me

CMIZ5290 · #21 12-31-2017, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clydepepper

probstein is DEAD to me

Ray, I know that Mr. Big (Rick P.) hates to hear that...

I hear your grief big time!! Meanwhile, he's laughing his ass off....

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
probstein123	Mrmiamih	Modern Baseball Cards Forum (1980-Present)	8	09-15-2017 10:26 AM
Top 20 high end auctions Probstein123	CMIZ5290	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	26	06-18-2015 08:17 PM
I you are considering consignment with Probstein123, read this first	james_b	Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980)	21	05-25-2015 12:26 AM
ebay seller - probstein123	jimjim	Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports	102	01-10-2014 08:34 PM
Probstein123 Still amazed he is in business	T205 GB	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	154	02-22-2013 02:01 PM