My experience with LOTG

1952boyntoncollector · #1 01-09-2018, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by botport

I just got off of about a 20 min phone conversation with Al. Time to fall on my sword.

He has located the cards. Al even offered to (vehemently) let me keep the reimbursement check that should arrive any day. (See post #1)
I denied this request and will hold check until cards arrive, then destroy it.

I apologize to anyone that I have offended by starting this thread, especially Al.

I will post further updates if anyone feels that an update is necessary.

Frank Horvath

Not sure why he would want you to keep the reimbursement check. Some may say thats like a payoff. If didnt take that long to resolve like everyone is saying why offer that.....heck could of given a 25 dollar credit on next auction if making a normal gesture etc....hmm..

Jacklitsch · #2 01-09-2018, 06:09 PM

1952...

That post confirms everything I've heard about you.

brianp-beme · #3 01-09-2018, 07:30 PM

Glad that it sounds like things will work out, and I admit that the OP had a legitimate gripe in being left in the dark for 8 days after being informed that the cards were in hiding. There were two postings from the OP that rubbed me the wrong way, however, after Al politely agreed with his various statements about the situation:

"I will scan a copy of the envelope and postmark to this thread when it arrives..."

"I wish you were as concerned for me receiving my winnings as you are with this thread..."

I typically stay out of posting in threads that stir things up, as I have spent decades in this hobby enjoying it at my relatively low level as a hobby and source of relaxation. But when someone that is so obviously good for the hobby, as Al has become in his capacity as an auction house owner, is being treated like he can't be trusted at his words, or that he has to prodded to make things right, well, it just stuck in my craw.

All has been made right in the universe, so carry on...may life proceed as it did in the time before best by dates on perishable items, when you had to decide on when to throw things out based upon the amount of dust on the packaging.

Brian

egbeachley · #4 01-09-2018, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Glad that it sounds like things will work out, and I admit that the OP had a legitimate gripe in being left in the dark for 8 days after being informed that the cards were in hiding.

Not sure why that's seems like a long time to many. 2 business days before the Christmas Holiday and 2 business days after. Good chance employees took a few days off making research difficult. Not to mention how long it may have taken to get some returned calls if he inquired with other buyers.

brianp-beme · #5 01-09-2018, 09:02 PM

Let's just say after receiving a PM from the OP, he has been put on my ignore list (what a great feature)...life is too short to have to deal with a person who would suggest a certain body part of his be stuck in my craw. Eww! Gross!

Brian

Al C.risafulli · #6 01-09-2018, 09:22 PM

Hi everyone:

This has mostly been a great discussion. I thought, now that the problem is on the fast-track to resolution, I would chime in with one last post to perhaps clarify a few things.

First and foremost, I have no issue with Frank opening this thread. I�ve been a member of this board for years, and time and again I�ve seen conflicts addressed and resolved due to discussions here. I�ve also seen many collectors get restitution simply by voicing their concerns. If I have to take a little heat, even when I am trying to do the right thing, that�s just collateral damage from a resource that is very, very helpful to this community.

Back on December 14, I received a payment from a long-time customer for his auction winnings. He included a note, asking if there was any way I could expedite his shipment so it would arrive before the holidays. In my haste to get his package out, I mistakenly put Frank�s 11 T206 cards (which had been pulled for packing as well) in with this customer�s items. I learned this today, because that customer read this thread, reviewed his shipment, and realized he had the cards. He has already shipped the cards back to me and provided a tracking number, and I should be able to turn them around and ship them to Frank by the end of the week.

It is truly unfortunate that this happened, because it is my goal to satisfy every single winning bidder with every single transaction. At the same time, over the five-year history of LOTG we�ve shipped about 15,000 different lots � and as much as I�d love to say we�re batting 1.000, it�s probably more like we�re batting .995. And while it�s true there were more slip-ups when the company was younger and we were still learning the ropes, from time to time I still make a mistake. What I CAN say, unequivocally, is that when I discover a problem, I do my best to resolve it as quickly as possible.

In this case, Frank made me aware that he had not received his winnings on December 20. After checking my records and realizing his lot was pulled but never shipped, I searched the storage area and, upon realizing the cards were no longer in our possession, attempted to piece together where I had inadvertently shipped them. I asked Frank for a couple of days to get to the root of things, knowing that the cards likely were still in transit due to holiday volume slowing USPS delivery times. After taking December 23-25 off for Christmas, I returned to the office on the 26th, hoping that the cards had arrived at their mystery destination, and whoever received them would reach out. On December 28, when that hadn�t happened, I advised Frank I would issue a full refund rather than hold his money, and apologized for my sloppy work. I cut the check on the 29th, the sixth business day after learning of the problem.

There is a second point I feel is worth addressing. During the course of this thread, a few people came to my defense � or at least attempted to offer an explanation for my mistake � by commenting that my company is a �one man show.� I am thrilled to say this is actually not the case. As many of you know, this fall Jeff Prizner joined me as consignment director, becoming the second face of LOTG (Jeff has a better face than me). But Love of the Game for quite some time has had capable behind-the-scenes help as well in the shipping room, and for scanning and photography, description-writing, and finance. I am not the only guy here!

I had a very pleasant discussion with Frank this afternoon, and I am thrilled to be able to get closer to making this right for him. It was his first experience with my company, and I messed it up. To those of you who offered kind words in this thread, I�m super appreciative. But what�s most important is that each time something like this happens, I can use it as a lesson to improve the service I provide to each of you.

Now�on to the next auction. We�ve got some FANTASTIC stuff lined up, it may well be the best auction we�ve ever had. I�d much rather be talking about that!

Warm regards,
-Al

icollectDCsports · #7 01-09-2018, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

Hi everyone:

This has mostly been a great discussion. I thought, now that the problem is on the fast-track to resolution, I would chime in with one last post to perhaps clarify a few things.

First and foremost, I have no issue with Frank opening this thread. I�ve been a member of this board for years, and time and again I�ve seen conflicts addressed and resolved due to discussions here. I�ve also seen many collectors get restitution simply by voicing their concerns. If I have to take a little heat, even when I am trying to do the right thing, that�s just collateral damage from a resource that is very, very helpful to this community.

Back on December 14, I received a payment from a long-time customer for his auction winnings. He included a note, asking if there was any way I could expedite his shipment so it would arrive before the holidays. In my haste to get his package out, I mistakenly put Frank�s 11 T206 cards (which had been pulled for packing as well) in with this customer�s items. I learned this today, because that customer read this thread, reviewed his shipment, and realized he had the cards. He has already shipped the cards back to me and provided a tracking number, and I should be able to turn them around and ship them to Frank by the end of the week.

It is truly unfortunate that this happened, because it is my goal to satisfy every single winning bidder with every single transaction. At the same time, over the five-year history of LOTG we�ve shipped about 15,000 different lots � and as much as I�d love to say we�re batting 1.000, it�s probably more like we�re batting .995. And while it�s true there were more slip-ups when the company was younger and we were still learning the ropes, from time to time I still make a mistake. What I CAN say, unequivocally, is that when I discover a problem, I do my best to resolve it as quickly as possible.

In this case, Frank made me aware that he had not received his winnings on December 20. After checking my records and realizing his lot was pulled but never shipped, I searched the storage area and, upon realizing the cards were no longer in our possession, attempted to piece together where I had inadvertently shipped them. I asked Frank for a couple of days to get to the root of things, knowing that the cards likely were still in transit due to holiday volume slowing USPS delivery times. After taking December 23-25 off for Christmas, I returned to the office on the 26th, hoping that the cards had arrived at their mystery destination, and whoever received them would reach out. On December 28, when that hadn�t happened, I advised Frank I would issue a full refund rather than hold his money, and apologized for my sloppy work. I cut the check on the 29th, the sixth business day after learning of the problem.

There is a second point I feel is worth addressing. During the course of this thread, a few people came to my defense � or at least attempted to offer an explanation for my mistake � by commenting that my company is a �one man show.� I am thrilled to say this is actually not the case. As many of you know, this fall Jeff Prizner joined me as consignment director, becoming the second face of LOTG (Jeff has a better face than me). But Love of the Game for quite some time has had capable behind-the-scenes help as well in the shipping room, and for scanning and photography, description-writing, and finance. I am not the only guy here!

I had a very pleasant discussion with Frank this afternoon, and I am thrilled to be able to get closer to making this right for him. It was his first experience with my company, and I messed it up. To those of you who offered kind words in this thread, I�m super appreciative. But what�s most important is that each time something like this happens, I can use it as a lesson to improve the service I provide to each of you.

Now�on to the next auction. We�ve got some FANTASTIC stuff lined up, it may well be the best auction we�ve ever had. I�d much rather be talking about that!

Warm regards,
-Al

You're a good dude, Al. If anything, this discussion has only served to show how honorable your business is.

68Hawk · #8 01-11-2018, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

Hi everyone:

This has mostly been a great discussion. I thought, now that the problem is on the fast-track to resolution, I would chime in with one last post to perhaps clarify a few things.

First and foremost, I have no issue with Frank opening this thread. I�ve been a member of this board for years, and time and again I�ve seen conflicts addressed and resolved due to discussions here. I�ve also seen many collectors get restitution simply by voicing their concerns. If I have to take a little heat, even when I am trying to do the right thing, that�s just collateral damage from a resource that is very, very helpful to this community.

Back on December 14, I received a payment from a long-time customer for his auction winnings. He included a note, asking if there was any way I could expedite his shipment so it would arrive before the holidays. In my haste to get his package out, I mistakenly put Frank�s 11 T206 cards (which had been pulled for packing as well) in with this customer�s items. I learned this today, because that customer read this thread, reviewed his shipment, and realized he had the cards. He has already shipped the cards back to me and provided a tracking number, and I should be able to turn them around and ship them to Frank by the end of the week.

It is truly unfortunate that this happened, because it is my goal to satisfy every single winning bidder with every single transaction. At the same time, over the five-year history of LOTG we�ve shipped about 15,000 different lots � and as much as I�d love to say we�re batting 1.000, it�s probably more like we�re batting .995. And while it�s true there were more slip-ups when the company was younger and we were still learning the ropes, from time to time I still make a mistake. What I CAN say, unequivocally, is that when I discover a problem, I do my best to resolve it as quickly as possible.

In this case, Frank made me aware that he had not received his winnings on December 20. After checking my records and realizing his lot was pulled but never shipped, I searched the storage area and, upon realizing the cards were no longer in our possession, attempted to piece together where I had inadvertently shipped them. I asked Frank for a couple of days to get to the root of things, knowing that the cards likely were still in transit due to holiday volume slowing USPS delivery times. After taking December 23-25 off for Christmas, I returned to the office on the 26th, hoping that the cards had arrived at their mystery destination, and whoever received them would reach out. On December 28, when that hadn�t happened, I advised Frank I would issue a full refund rather than hold his money, and apologized for my sloppy work. I cut the check on the 29th, the sixth business day after learning of the problem.

There is a second point I feel is worth addressing. During the course of this thread, a few people came to my defense � or at least attempted to offer an explanation for my mistake � by commenting that my company is a �one man show.� I am thrilled to say this is actually not the case. As many of you know, this fall Jeff Prizner joined me as consignment director, becoming the second face of LOTG (Jeff has a better face than me). But Love of the Game for quite some time has had capable behind-the-scenes help as well in the shipping room, and for scanning and photography, description-writing, and finance. I am not the only guy here!

I had a very pleasant discussion with Frank this afternoon, and I am thrilled to be able to get closer to making this right for him. It was his first experience with my company, and I messed it up. To those of you who offered kind words in this thread, I�m super appreciative. But what�s most important is that each time something like this happens, I can use it as a lesson to improve the service I provide to each of you.

Now�on to the next auction. We�ve got some FANTASTIC stuff lined up, it may well be the best auction we�ve ever had. I�d much rather be talking about that!

Warm regards,
-Al

Sensational. As a buyer or seller LOTG is the kind of AH I want to work with.
Al, I still haven't checklisted everything so you'll have to hit me up again for a future auction.....In my mind you're the best in the business because you are a really fine human being. Honesty pays, and you're as straight up and down as the days are long.

1952boyntoncollector · #9 01-10-2018, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacklitsch

1952...

That post confirms everything I've heard about you.

which post there were a few. You the only one that seemed to comment on the mystery post. My posts just observations you can agree or disagree. I didnt start the thread..

It could be a great auction house but he did ship the wrong cards. Also Al (correct me if im wrong) said in his post that he was fine with the buyer starting the thread. So comments on it are natural. It it also my understanding it appears the Al had no idea where he sent the cards too until someone who read the thread told him they got the cards and Al also offered the buyer the cards for free (he offered to reimburse and buyer can still get the cards) I wonder at what price he would of allowed that too ie $700, $1000?

Anyway, im glad it got resolved and not saying any auction house is the worst or dishonest. Measures were taken to resolve everything. Thats great. Maybe what was going on behind the scenes would of been more transparent if an auction house posted here to try to find out where the cards were instead of a the buyer. It seemed the auction house was fine in just returning the money instead of tracking down the cards which is what the buyer wanted more than his money back. It did work out that way, thanks to the buyer starting the thread on net54.

Again, thats my observation. and anyone is free to correct me if i am wrong.

the-illini · #10 01-10-2018, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

which post there were a few. You the only one that seemed to comment on the mystery post. My posts just observations you can agree or disagree. I didnt start the thread..

Not Steve but I would guess he is referring to your wondering if there was something nefarious involved with LOTG offering to essentially let the OP have his winning lot for free...

Jacklitsch · #11 01-10-2018, 10:31 AM

Chris is correct.

1952boyntoncollector · #12 01-10-2018, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the-illini

Not Steve but I would guess he is referring to your wondering if there was something nefarious involved with LOTG offering to essentially let the OP have his winning lot for free...

Just made an observation of letting the OP have his winning lot for free. What would been the cutoff to not letting him pay...lot worth $1000?....at a certain price point i think everyone would be wondering.....its not like it was just 5 bucks.......it was $540 bucks...

If you note when the lot wasn't 'found' yet no free money was being offered in addition to refund. Why only after delivering the cards is he also going to let him have free money (keep the cards that went for $540). Why not offer him more than his refund (0-$540) to begin with for the mistake...would have costed the Auction House the same....yet all that was offered was the refund and alleged lack of communication..but they chose the giving free money action after this thread started and cards found (but not before the thread).........however the buyer that started this thread is very happy and it all worked out....

timn1 · #13 01-10-2018, 05:50 PM

This one is obvious too, from a customer service perspective. When all this blew up, the reputable AH owner decided he wanted to do absolutely everything possible to satisfy the customer and all onlookers - hence the offer of the refund. Ironically, for a few people, that extra-mile offer only served to create even more suspicion.

Man, it doesn't seem to matter what either the OP or the AH owner do - someone who knows better is going to jump all over them.

Can we all try to agree that everyone acted reasonably here and all has ended well? and move on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Just made an observation of letting the OP have his winning lot for free. What would been the cutoff to not letting him pay...lot worth $1000?....at a certain price point i think everyone would be wondering.....its not like it was just 5 bucks.......it was $540 bucks...

If you note when the lot wasn't 'found' yet no free money was being offered in addition to refund. Why only after delivering the cards is he also going to let him have free money (keep the cards that went for $540). Why not offer him more than his refund (0-$540) to begin with for the mistake...would have costed the Auction House the same....yet all that was offered was the refund and alleged lack of communication..but they chose the giving free money action after this thread started and cards found (but not before the thread).........however the buyer that started this thread is very happy and it all worked out....

3-2-count · #14 01-10-2018, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Just made an observation of letting the OP have his winning lot for free. What would been the cutoff to not letting him pay...lot worth $1000?....at a certain price point i think everyone would be wondering.....its not like it was just 5 bucks.......it was $540 bucks...

If you note when the lot wasn't 'found' yet no free money was being offered in addition to refund. Why only after delivering the cards is he also going to let him have free money (keep the cards that went for $540). Why not offer him more than his refund (0-$540) to begin with for the mistake...would have costed the Auction House the same....yet all that was offered was the refund and alleged lack of communication..but they chose the giving free money action after this thread started and cards found (but not before the thread).........however the buyer that started this thread is very happy and it all worked out....

Jake, thank God that we have you here. We'd all be lost without the presence of your immense knowledge regarding each subject which is discussed.

rainier2004 · #15 01-10-2018, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Jake, thank God that we have you here. We'd all be lost without the presence of your immense knowledge regarding each subject which is discussed.

Absolutely, I feel enlightened every time he quotes the sale price followed by GLWS and all the brilliance brought. The grasp of the obvious and go against the logistics is simply amazing. Bravo, just bravo...

1952boyntoncollector · #16 01-11-2018, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Jake, thank God that we have you here. We'd all be lost without the presence of your immense knowledge regarding each subject which is discussed.

Luckily you are here to say something negative on every post i make....luckily for us you are here to find our path....

as to Ranier about quoting sales in posts...leon said specifically last week that this was not allowed to avoid any confusion....you emailed me a bunch on this whining and reporting it to Leon....so now its not done anymore...some agreed with it...some didnt.......but glad to see you take a chance to pile on with Tony and his checkered history with me (though i not comment negatively on his posts not directed toward me)....... Nice to see you cleaning up the hobby of people not having an asking price now for people to see 5 years from now...

maybe you can now criticize someone for bumping their thread too much that no longer does it anymore.....just wait for someone to criticize that person and then pile on...... congrats..

Leon · #17 01-11-2018, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Jake, thank God that we have you here. We'd all be lost without the presence of your immense knowledge regarding each subject which is discussed.

I think he said an ocean liner of words for a canoe of thought. And I am still not quite sure what the heck he meant!!

And I just saw him reply to you, now he can reply to me too.

Fred · #18 01-09-2018, 06:35 PM

Slander!
Libel!
Defamation of character!

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...-slander-libel

Jesus de Christo.... WTF....

Just want to say I've got nothing but good to say about LOTG. Shit happens, it's not like LOTG planned this or even wanted this. Same goes for the OP, I'm sure he'd rather just have the cards.

So, if I were to call Leon (our gracious moderator) the king of the terds, is that slander, libel, defamation of character or something else?

What if I were to to call Leon (our gracious moderator) a violent axe murderer, (even though he isn't, well I don't think he is) is that slander, libel, defamation of character or something else?

What if I were to to call Leon (our gracious moderator) a thief that stole my collection of cards (even though he didn't), is that slander, libel, defamation of character or something else?

What if I were to to call Leon (our gracious moderator) an egotistical douchebag piece of shit and can surpass Donald Trump on the idiot scale (even though we know he's a mild mannered moderator), is that slander, libel, defamation of character or something else? In that case I'd say that's probably all of them....

Let's all lighten up a bit - this situation sucks for both LOTG and Frank. What's going to be really sad is if the check never reaches Frank because it was somehow destroyed or lost by the postal service. Sorry, I'm going to believe that LOTG sent out the check because that's just the way it sounds like Al does business.

Frank, the way it sounds, the last communication you had with Al was on 28DEC17. Is that correct? If so, that would have been 10 days before you made this post. Personally, I'd have contacted Al again before I made a post like this. If things work out the way most of us predict, then you're going to feel like a dick (oh crap, is that slander, libel or defamation). Really sorry to hear about the bad experience, for both you and Al.

In any case, congratulations to Orlando on his 700th post and hoping that this thread will soon die out so we can all get back to thinking that Leon is a gracious moderator rather than any of the things mentioned or indicated in this post.....

Fred · #19 01-09-2018, 06:38 PM

Oh, it's over.... that's what I get for not reading EVERY frigging post....

Fred · #20 01-09-2018, 06:47 PM

Finally got to the part where Frank posted about a resolution. Gotta give you props, you did the right thing with an apology to Al. Kind of sucks to be in that situation (both you and Al). Does that mean you'll be bidding in future LOTG auctions? If so, then darn it, one more person to bid against....

Peter_Spaeth · #21 01-09-2018, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Not sure why he would want you to keep the reimbursement check. Some may say thats like a payoff. If didnt take that long to resolve like everyone is saying why offer that.....heck could of given a 25 dollar credit on next auction if making a normal gesture etc....hmm..

Huh?? It's pretty obvious why. Payoff?

BengoughingForAwhile · #22 01-09-2018, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Huh?? It's pretty obvious why. Payoff?

This and other nefarious activity will be exposed in the soon to be released "Al Dossier"

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