Card doctoring...

[WillowGrove]

Leon - thanks for posting that from Lew.

I guess I should not be surprised but seeing such details and proof in print from so long ago, kinda confirms for me that a lot of doctoring is being done today.

I've been seeing/handling t206's, etc since the late 1970s and I don't remember seeing so many sharp old cards as I do today. Could they have come out of olde timie collections? I guess. But if I was a betting man, and I am, I think doctoring is pretty darn wide-spread.

Sad face.

peter

[drcy]

For my book, I did a case study research on ancient American Indian artifacts. Many of the artifacts on the market have similarly been altered and for similarly various reasons-- from a century old farmer innocently cleaning up a chipped age of an arrowhead he found in his field to a modern dealer deceptively reshaping a broken artifacts into a whole or even better shape.

Luckily, in this area the authentic artifacts are centuries old with centuries old wear, patina and mineral deposits from the earth, so you can identify when and where an arrowhead or such has been altered in modern times. Unlike with baseball cards, a razor sharp edge or corner is not a desirable quality.

[samosa4u]

1. Any foreign substance removed from any card is an improvement and need not be mentioned to a buyer.

I don't consider this restoration, such as removing glue residue on the back, but it should at least be pointed out to the buyer. Most buyers IMO are OK with this.

2. Anything added to (like color) a card is fraudulent. Or building up corners. Horrors!

Agreed. How the hell do they rebuild corners? That is FREAKY!

3. Nobody should trim cards. It's not the same card.

Agreed.

4) If ironing out creases is successful, fine.

Hell no! Sometimes these creases or wrinkles can reappear many months or years down the line (when the card is sitting inside a PSA 8 case!)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

1. Any foreign substance removed from any card is an improvement and need not be mentioned to a buyer.

I don't consider this restoration, such as removing glue residue on the back, but it should at least be pointed out to the buyer. Most buyers IMO are OK with this.

2. Anything added to (like color) a card is fraudulent. Or building up corners. Horrors!

Agreed. How the hell do they rebuild corners? That is FREAKY!

3. Nobody should trim cards. It's not the same card.

Agreed.

4) If ironing out creases is successful, fine.

Hell no! Sometimes these creases or wrinkles can reappear many months or years down the line (when the card is sitting inside a PSA 8 case!)

Yeah re 4 I've seen that happen at least twice, either that or PSA somehow missed the very obvious wrinkle the first time which is highly unlikely.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

[

2. Anything added to (like color) a card is fraudulent. Or building up corners. Horrors!

Restored corners and major restoration like that is easy to identify. I wouldn't worry about that stuff sneaking forever undetectable into the hobby.

[frankbmd]

Perhaps we should discuss the impact of card nursing on the hobby as well.

[packs]

If restoration is no big deal then it should be no big deal to disclose it either.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by packs

If restoration is no big deal then it should be no big deal to disclose it either.

Correct. When people say a type of restoration is no big deal, then they should have no problem disclosing it. That they don't want to disclose it at sale says the do think it is a 'deal' that affects resale value.

Another thing is that there are standard advanced scientific tests that are used elsewhere, but not with trading cards. That doesn't mean that ten or twenty years down the road, someone won't do the tests on today's cards to identify which have been altered.

I don't consider this whole discussion a big issue for collectors of mid to low grade cards-- which I assume is most people on this board. However, I think many collectors of highest grade graded cards are rubes.

There's another area (not cards) that I bet will be a matter of rude awakening for collectors in the future, but that's a topic for another discussion.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Perhaps we should discuss the impact of card nursing on the hobby as well.

I suspect you would have made a better nurse than doctor yourself.

[buymycards]

Over the years there have been many posts in the BST that tout the card as having "wide" borders. When I see posts like that, my first thought is - Maybe the seller of the card is possibly suggesting that this would be a great card to trim. Otherwise, I don't see any extra value in cards with wide borders.

[xplainer]

How would soaking fit into this discussion? Removing glue or tobacco stains from PBs for example. Just curious how this is looked upon.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I suspect you would have made a better nurse than doctor yourself.

Au contraire, I just made nurses better.