Card doctoring...

[swarmee]

And some of them post on this website with no issues. If I ran the board, they would be "gone with the suspension."

[Leon]

Originally Posted by swarmee

And some of them post on this website with no issues. If I ran the board, they would be "gone with the suspension."

Ok, so who are they?

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by swarmee

And some of them post on this website with no issues. If I ran the board, they would be "gone with the suspension."

Could you please share? I'm sure we would all love to hear that and Leon already seems interested.

[swarmee]

Gone With The Stain... Dick Towle.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ighlight=towle

I thought the clue would be more than obvious. Guess I was wrong.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Some of what he does I guess you could argue about, but he admits he takes out wrinkles.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Some of what he does I guess you could argue about, but he admits he takes out wrinkles.

Some people, myself included, don't feel that removing creases is considered doctoring a card. If you read Julie's response in the article that Leon posted from the Old Judge, Spring1986, she says, "If ironing out creases is successful, fine." I was collecting in 1986, that was nearly 32 years ago. I felt that way then, I still feel that way today. Lipset himslef even goes on to say, "It is our assumption that Julie's feelings would mirror the great majority of the card collecting hobby." I think he was right.

Flash forward 31 years later, Andy Broome wrote a nice article in the June 2017 issue of Beckett's Vintage Collector titled "Altered States." It's about card doctoring - everything from trimming, soaking, re-coloring, power erasing, pressing, rebuilding, etc and leaves it to the reader to determine what is acceptable and what is not. He does say, "My personal belief is if nothing is added or taken away from the physical card and there is nothing left behind, then it it more likely acceptable."

As collectors, we each have to determine what is acceptable and what is not.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Some people, myself included, don't feel that removing creases is considered doctoring a card. If you read Julie's response in the article that Leon posted from the Old Judge, Spring1986, she says, "If ironing out creases is successful, fine." I was collecting in 1986, that was nearly 32 years ago. I felt that way then, I still feel that way today. Lipset himslef even goes on to say, "It is our assumption that Julie's feelings would mirror the great majority of the card collecting hobby." I think he was right.

Flash forward 31 years later, Andy Brooke wrote a nice article in the June 2017 issue of Beckett's Vintage Collector titled "Altered States." It's about card doctoring - everything from trimming, soaking, re-coloring, power erasing, pressing, rebuilding, etc and leaves it to the reader to determine what is acceptable and what is not. He does say, "My personal belief is if nothing is added or taken away from the physical card and there is nothing left behind, then it it more likely acceptable."

As collectors, we each have to determine what is acceptable and what is not.

I don't know how to do a poll, but I will make you a gentleman's bet that if someone starts one with the question, is it acceptable to take creases out of cards, a strong majority will say no.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't know how to do a poll, but I will make you a gentleman's bet that if someone starts one with the question, is it acceptable to take creases out of cards, a strong majority will say no.

It would depend on if they are selling or buying.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't know how to do a poll, but I will make you a gentleman's bet that if someone starts one with the question, is it acceptable to take creases out of cards, a strong majority will say no.

I think someone should start a poll of what is acceptable and what is not, but include the following:

Soaking in water
Soaking in chemicals
Card stretching
Re-coloring
Removing creases
Power erasing
Trimming
Rebuilding
Removing wax stains
Anything else you can think of

I think you would have to qualify it by stating that for the sake of argument that the restoration/alteration would never be detectable, which would a buyer find acceptable and which would a buyer find not acceptable.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Gone With The Stain... Dick Towle.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ighlight=towle

I thought the clue would be more than obvious. Guess I was wrong.

Hmmm..I am sort of slow......In retrospect I agree. Gone. Next?

[swarmee]

Much appreciated; I always thought it was bizarre he was allowed on this site.

[irv]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

1. Any foreign substance removed from any card is an improvement and need not be mentioned to a buyer.

I don't consider this restoration, such as removing glue residue on the back, but it should at least be pointed out to the buyer. Most buyers IMO are OK with this.

2. Anything added to (like color) a card is fraudulent. Or building up corners. Horrors!

Agreed. How the hell do they rebuild corners? That is FREAKY!

3. Nobody should trim cards. It's not the same card.

Agreed.

4) If ironing out creases is successful, fine.

Hell no! Sometimes these creases or wrinkles can reappear many months or years down the line (when the card is sitting inside a PSA 8 case!)

I had no idea that was being or could be done either! I am curious how hard it is to see/tell that this has been done to a card?
My gut tells me, after a bit of dirt/staining has been purposely added to hide this restoration, it is ver hard?

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have no idea about percentage, but with the number of people I know to be card doctors, and the number of years they have been doing it, and some sense of how many cards they work on, it adds up.

Great thread, Peter, but disheartening at the same time.

I appreciate the education lesson, however.

Thanks for starting it.

[drcy]

Built up corners are straightforward to identify.