Indians to remove chief Wahoo stating in 2019

CollectingAmericasPastime · #1 01-29-2018, 07:21 PM

I challenge everyone complaining about Chief Wahoo to actually do something for these oppressed Native Americans you apparently care so much about. Protest the government for putting them on reservations, protest to get them their land back. Hell, leave this country since it belonged to them before the white man came along. Take action, other than getting rid of a logo designed to pay tribute to Indians, to clear your conscious and rid yourself of whatever guilt you may feel for some reason.

Otherwise, you're choosing to be offended, and for some reason you think the world should shift/change to fit your beliefs. That's exactly what this is about. It's incredible how little credit you're giving those who oppose you. What did they do to make you believe they are so heartless for liking Chief Wahoo? What if they just choose to not look for something offensive? What if they simply view Chief Wahoo for what it is: a fun-loving, smiling Indian logo created to pay homage to Native American heritage, Cleveland baseball history, and Louis Sockalexis? Just take a second and think about that. Why do SO many people like him if he's supposedly that offensive? Why don't you just not support the Indians?

Now my team that I've grown up rooting for, the one that has had Chief Wahoo since the '40s, chose to cower to Manfred and the minority. I now lose the chance to see Chief Wahoo on the National Stage. Do you know how proud I and so many others were to see that smiling Indian in the World Series in 2016? I was a baby, but I don't think I've ever heard a story about people bitchin' and moanin' in the '90s when the Jake was sold out game after game for nearly a decade, Chief Wahoo on EVERYONE's person. I own ONE tshirt with the Block C, and that's because it has an American Flag in it (is that offensive because we took this land from he Native Americans?).

Additionally, you can't marginalize vintagetoppsguy for bringing up the Irish mascot for both the Celtics and Notre Dame. That's hypocritical. Or how about the following...

San Francisco Giants = offensive to little people
Minnesota Twins = offensive to only children, triplets, quintuplets, etc.
NY Yankees = offensive to the Dutch (didn't know that) and southerners; hell, as a northerner, I'm not sure I like being referred to as a Yankee
Tampa Bay Rays = what about the rest of the shark family?
Chicago Cubs = offensive to grown bears, plus the bear is brown; what about black bears, polar bears, etc.?
White Sox & Red Sox = what about blue sox, grey socks, black socks, green socks, yellow socks, etc.?
Kansas City Royals = offensive to people who aren't of royal blood
Oakland A's = an elephant on a circus ball is offensive, especially considering the Ringling Bros Circus or whatever was discontinued to people getting offended
Detroit Tigers = what about the rest of the cat family?
Philly Phanatic = what about lethargic fans?
Colorado Rockies = what about the Appalachian Mountains?
Arizona Diamondbacks = really, referring to rattlesnakes as diamondbacks... that's pretty offensive to them
Cardinals & Orioles = what about other birds?

I'll stick to just the MLB, and won't bring up the other offensive names in sports; I'm sure if I look hard enough, I could find something to be offended about with every single nickname/logo in sports. And how ridiculous the above seem, is how ridiculous the argument against Chief Wahoo is with very few of the outspoken minority against Chief Wahoo being Native American (from what I've seen/heard).

Keep the Chief. You'll see me an thousands of others at games next year sporting nothing but Chief Wahoo gear.

And another sick angle to this: Manfred probably threatened to take away the 2019 All Star Game if Dolan kept Chief Wahoo.

Peter_Spaeth · #2 01-29-2018, 07:34 PM

I am reminded of one of the most pathetic sights I ever have seen -- Jane Fonda doing the tomahawk chop.

Snapolit1 · #3 01-29-2018, 07:40 PM

Basically the equivalent to some mocking horrible black stereotype character from the 1930-40 with huge lips and bulging eyes. Hard to imagine there can even be a discussion on this one.

CollectingAmericasPastime · #4 01-29-2018, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Basically the equivalent to some mocking horrible black stereotype character from the 1930-40 with huge lips and bulging eyes. Hard to imagine there can even be a discussion on this one.

Furthest thing from it. Those depictions were malicious.

By the way, the Indians can't go with the Block C anymore. The Block C was also the logo of the Indianapolis Clowns. Talk about offensive.

timn1 · #5 01-29-2018, 09:56 PM

Edited for civility, but still...

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Furthest thing from it. Those depictions were malicious.

By the way, the Indians can't go with the Block C anymore. The Block C was also the logo of the Indianapolis Clowns. Talk about offensive.

orly57 · #6 01-29-2018, 07:51 PM

Exactly Steve. For some reason, people think racism only applies to African Americans. As if only they should be protected from epithets and stereotypes. As if they were the only ones who have been subject to racism in this country. I think that the term "redskin" is every bit as racist as the "n word" that we can't even utter, much less name a professional sports team after. The Indian caricature was shameful. And by the way, I can't stand political correctness. Its proponents have been the the proverbial "boy who cried wolf." When truly disturbing issues like this are raised, they are treated with an eye-roll because we are all so sick of it. But this one, and the redskins, in my opinion, have real merit.

Orioles1954 · #7 01-29-2018, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orly57

Exactly Steve. For some reason, people think racism only applies to African Americans. As if only they should be protected from epithets and stereotypes. As if they were the only ones who have been subject to racism in this country. I think that the term "redskin" is every bit as racist as the "n word" that we can't even utter, much less name a professional sports team after. The Indian caricature was shameful. And by the way, I can't stand political correctness. It has been the equivalent of the boy who cried wolf. When truly disturbing things like this are raised, it is treated with an eye-roll because we are all so sick of it. But this one, and the redskins, in my opinion, have real merit.

+1

A2000 · #8 01-29-2018, 08:11 PM

I'm shocked by how this thread has gone.

rainier2004 · #9 01-29-2018, 08:35 PM

Kyle - I have reached out to Native Americans, I have asked them what they of names like those that belonged to Central Michigan University and the Cleveland Indians. I have gone to gatherings and social events that bring awareness to the tough road they have traveled. So why don't I do something you ask? Speaking my opinion is doing something, asking opinions and listening is doing something and becoming willing to change is doing something IMO.

Will removing this logo change the lives of all Native Americans? Absolutely not, not in any way. Go ono a reservation, study some history and look at what was done to this entire group as a whole and tell me how "important" that logo is...really? That cartoonish big smiling Chief is simply not cool and those are not my words only.

Why doesn't the Indians organization reach out to the local tribes and come to some sort of understanding? How hard would that be? I know there are ways for this to be done, its been done before and Id assume it will be done again. But I couldn't care less about how important this logo is to you or any "fan"...its simply disrespectful. We need to come to an understanding and evolve as the times evolve and we grow as a nation or we will die by killing our own brothers and sisters. I hate PC as well, just like Orly stated, but sometimes things need to change.

mark evans · #10 01-29-2018, 08:41 PM

I agree with the decision to replace the Wahoo logo. And, I acknowledge that heading down this road will raise some tough line-drawing problems. But, public policy frequently involves resolution of just such problems; they can't be avoided.

tjb1952tjb · #11 01-29-2018, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Basically the equivalent to some mocking horrible black stereotype character from the 1930-40 with huge lips and bulging eyes. Hard to imagine there can even be a discussion on this one.

Calls to mind the old Sambo's restaurants.........

pclpads · #12 01-30-2018, 02:57 AM

The once proud Cleveland franchise can now change their name to the Cleveland Pu**ies, after capitulating to the PC crowd. Only problem is what a relevant mascot would look like.

Bpm0014 · #13 01-30-2018, 08:48 AM

However, nobody is up in arms about that one one because the Irish have a sense of humor.

Aaaaaaa-men!!

steve B · #14 01-30-2018, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

However, nobody is up in arms about that one one because the Irish have a sense of humor.

Aaaaaaa-men!!

I'd scan and post some of the old anti-Irish cartoons, but I'd probably be banned.

Peter_Spaeth · #15 01-29-2018, 07:50 PM

David -- here is a link to the speech. LBJ clearly had evolved, as he says himself.

http://www.historyplace.com/speeches/johnson.htm

keithsky · #16 01-30-2018, 09:30 AM

Were all getting to be like robots. Everyone has to do and say the right thing without offending anyone otherwise they'll protest. Everyone has there own view on things in life as it should be. If I don't like something doesn't mean the other guy has to agree or if I like something doesn't mean everyone has to but that is what society wants anymore. Everyone is on edge to make sure whatever they say doesn't hurt anyones fellings. We're all different and should be, that is what makes us unique.

Bored5000 · #17 01-30-2018, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Additionally, you can't marginalize vintagetoppsguy for bringing up the Irish mascot for both the Celtics and Notre Dame. That's hypocritical. Or how about the following...

San Francisco Giants = offensive to little people
Minnesota Twins = offensive to only children, triplets, quintuplets, etc.
NY Yankees = offensive to the Dutch (didn't know that) and southerners; hell, as a northerner, I'm not sure I like being referred to as a Yankee
Tampa Bay Rays = what about the rest of the shark family?
Chicago Cubs = offensive to grown bears, plus the bear is brown; what about black bears, polar bears, etc.?
White Sox & Red Sox = what about blue sox, grey socks, black socks, green socks, yellow socks, etc.?
Kansas City Royals = offensive to people who aren't of royal blood
Oakland A's = an elephant on a circus ball is offensive, especially considering the Ringling Bros Circus or whatever was discontinued to people getting offended
Detroit Tigers = what about the rest of the cat family?
Philly Phanatic = what about lethargic fans?
Colorado Rockies = what about the Appalachian Mountains?
Arizona Diamondbacks = really, referring to rattlesnakes as diamondbacks... that's pretty offensive to them
Cardinals & Orioles = what about other birds?

You are seriously trying to equate a logo stereotyping an entire race of people with logos "offensive" to mountain chains or different colored socks or members of the animal kingdom?

That line of argument doesn't do any favors to your defense of Chief Wahoo. That argument is a pretty glaring exhibit that Chief Wahoo is an offensive stereotype that needs to be thrown on the dustbin of history,

bbcardzman · #18 01-30-2018, 09:07 AM

Just more stupidity from the idiots on the left

Bpm0014 · #19 01-30-2018, 09:11 AM

How long before the Rebels and Running Rebels are forced by the left to change their names too?

darwinbulldog · #20 01-30-2018, 09:23 AM

It'll be interesting to see how many of you guys Leon decides to ban now.

Mutton Chop Yaz · #21 01-30-2018, 09:28 AM

This is the right move, and it should have happened a long time ago.

I'm an Indians fan and had avoided the Wahoo logo for years.

vintagetoppsguy · #22 01-30-2018, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

It'll be interesting to see how many of you guys Leon decides to ban now.

LOL! How typical! Disagree with someone on the other side and you should be banned...shut up...not allowed to speak. I didn't see that one coming

darwinbulldog · #23 01-30-2018, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

LOL! How typical! Disagree with someone on the other side and you should be banned...shut up...not allowed to speak. I didn't see that one coming

Banning people for making political comments is Leon's rule. You can look it up. I'd actually prefer more political discussions. But it does put Leon in a difficult and interesting position when you get a thread like this where, depending on one's definition, anywhere from 10% to 50% of the posts are political.

darwinbulldog · #24 01-30-2018, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

I challenge everyone complaining about Chief Wahoo to actually do something for these oppressed Native Americans you apparently care so much about. Protest the government for putting them on reservations, protest to get them their land back. Hell, leave this country since it belonged to them before the white man came along. Take action, other than getting rid of a logo designed to pay tribute to Indians, to clear your conscious and rid yourself of whatever guilt you may feel for some reason.

Otherwise, you're choosing to be offended, and for some reason you think the world should shift/change to fit your beliefs. That's exactly what this is about. It's incredible how little credit you're giving those who oppose you. What did they do to make you believe they are so heartless for liking Chief Wahoo? What if they just choose to not look for something offensive? What if they simply view Chief Wahoo for what it is: a fun-loving, smiling Indian logo created to pay homage to Native American heritage, Cleveland baseball history, and Louis Sockalexis? Just take a second and think about that. Why do SO many people like him if he's supposedly that offensive? Why don't you just not support the Indians?

Now my team that I've grown up rooting for, the one that has had Chief Wahoo since the '40s, chose to cower to Manfred and the minority. I now lose the chance to see Chief Wahoo on the National Stage. Do you know how proud I and so many others were to see that smiling Indian in the World Series in 2016? I was a baby, but I don't think I've ever heard a story about people bitchin' and moanin' in the '90s when the Jake was sold out game after game for nearly a decade, Chief Wahoo on EVERYONE's person. I own ONE tshirt with the Block C, and that's because it has an American Flag in it (is that offensive because we took this land from he Native Americans?).

Additionally, you can't marginalize vintagetoppsguy for bringing up the Irish mascot for both the Celtics and Notre Dame. That's hypocritical. Or how about the following...

San Francisco Giants = offensive to little people
Minnesota Twins = offensive to only children, triplets, quintuplets, etc.
NY Yankees = offensive to the Dutch (didn't know that) and southerners; hell, as a northerner, I'm not sure I like being referred to as a Yankee
Tampa Bay Rays = what about the rest of the shark family?
Chicago Cubs = offensive to grown bears, plus the bear is brown; what about black bears, polar bears, etc.?
White Sox & Red Sox = what about blue sox, grey socks, black socks, green socks, yellow socks, etc.?
Kansas City Royals = offensive to people who aren't of royal blood
Oakland A's = an elephant on a circus ball is offensive, especially considering the Ringling Bros Circus or whatever was discontinued to people getting offended
Detroit Tigers = what about the rest of the cat family?
Philly Phanatic = what about lethargic fans?
Colorado Rockies = what about the Appalachian Mountains?
Arizona Diamondbacks = really, referring to rattlesnakes as diamondbacks... that's pretty offensive to them
Cardinals & Orioles = what about other birds?

I'll stick to just the MLB, and won't bring up the other offensive names in sports; I'm sure if I look hard enough, I could find something to be offended about with every single nickname/logo in sports. And how ridiculous the above seem, is how ridiculous the argument against Chief Wahoo is with very few of the outspoken minority against Chief Wahoo being Native American (from what I've seen/heard).

Keep the Chief. You'll see me an thousands of others at games next year sporting nothing but Chief Wahoo gear.

And another sick angle to this: Manfred probably threatened to take away the 2019 All Star Game if Dolan kept Chief Wahoo.

Let me make sure I'm following your reasoning here.

If Indians is offensive to Indians and Irish is offensive to the Irish, then the other names must be offensive to the groups that they do not refer to. That's so stupid it's brilliant. And yet somehow manages to be the most reasonable component of your argument.

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