Importance of Provenance

nolemmings · #1 01-31-2018, 09:58 AM

I don't think it's fair for me to render an opinion, since I've never been to Rhode Island.

oldjudge · #2 02-02-2018, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I don't think it's fair for me to render an opinion, since I've never been to Rhode Island.

Todd-I enjoyed the line, even if no one else caught it.

brian1961 · #3 02-02-2018, 12:30 PM

This morning I thought of a good example of provenance where it pertains to lineage that would have interested me. A high-grade 1952 Topps Mantle is as great as they come, but would be magnified to me if it came from the Mr. Mint find of 1985-86. That was one momentous event in hobby history. ---Brian Powell

Snapolit1 · #4 02-02-2018, 01:52 PM

I have been in the hobby far shorter than most of you guys, but it seems to me that most of the momentous "finds" of the last few year have been hyped up to a degree that they never really could fulfill. Who cares where and how a card was found. Might be interesting but I don't see how it impacts what I want to pay for a card.

Leon · #5 02-02-2018, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I have been in the hobby far shorter than most of you guys, but it seems to me that most of the momentous "finds" of the last few year have been hyped up to a degree that they never really could fulfill. Who cares where and how a card was found. Might be interesting but I don't see how it impacts what I want to pay for a card.

So you don't want to know that a card is fresh to the hobby instead of "who knows whose hands" its been in for the last 100 yrs? I absolutely do if possible. If the card is brand new to the hobby it is much less likely to be screwed with, imo. Kind of like the pack of cards I showed above. No doubt they haven't been "worked on" like thousands and thousands of others, many of which are in slabs today (Harris Collection of tiny borders... LOL)....just my opinion and your mileage may vary.

.

packs · #6 02-02-2018, 03:15 PM

I read through the original auction description for the Blue Old Mill but I don't see any mentions of who owned the card or its history prior to arriving at the National.

http://nov12.hugginsandscott.com/cgi...l?itemid=51236

steve B · #7 02-02-2018, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

I read through the original auction description for the Blue Old Mill but I don't see any mentions of who owned the card or its history prior to arriving at the National.

http://nov12.hugginsandscott.com/cgi...l?itemid=51236

And there was a lot of controversy about it. Would there have been as much if that history was known? Maybe, maybe not.

If the Black Swamp find hadn't been publicized and the cards simply sold off a few at a time, would people believe they were unaltered? Probably not.

I do agree though that for most cards it doesn't matter much. And it may or may not matter much to someone if a card was in a particular collectors collection. To me it would matter a little. Eventually I'd like to pick up one from each hobby pioneer, but I'm not interested enough to pay a huge premium.
In my other hobby, there is a bit of a premium attached to something being from a famous collection, or for some of the major rarities, multiple famous collections.
That can also help identify things that might go unnoticed. I bought an item that was unusual, to the point where there was a list of similar items. To my surprise this one was sort of on the list. Sort of, because it was in a famous collection that was sold off in the 1930's and at the time it was an individual lot in the auction, but not pictured since pictures of it were illegal then. But it matches the description, and there has only been one sold anywhere.
So it's EX- Ackerman, unique, and nobody knows where it's been since the 1930's. I'd probably do pretty well if I sent it to auction, and a little research made the difference between me buying it of not. (Sadly, it's not in the Wagner or even 52 Mantle price range, and much less than even many postwar rookies even though it's unique. )

Snapolit1 · #8 02-03-2018, 08:32 AM

Good point Leon . . . hadn't looked at it from that angle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

So you don't want to know that a card is fresh to the hobby instead of "who knows whose hands" its been in for the last 100 yrs? I absolutely do if possible. If the card is brand new to the hobby it is much less likely to be screwed with, imo. Kind of like the pack of cards I showed above. No doubt they haven't been "worked on" like thousands and thousands of others, many of which are in slabs today (Harris Collection of tiny borders... LOL)....just my opinion and your mileage may vary.

.

ullmandds · #9 02-03-2018, 08:53 AM

like most opinions here...I do not put any significant premiumbased on provenance on "most" cards I buy. Do I think it's cool to own cards once collected by the founding fathers of the hobby...ABSOLUTELY! Have I paid a slight premium for such cards in the past...YUP!

But these days my focus is so small...I will buy anything I see on my wantlist regardless of provenance as long as it meets my standards...which arent very high!!!!!!

With autographs and memorabilia...and ART...totally different story!

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