E97 C.A. Briggs Dating

[Cozumeleno]

I've heard the nickname argument before but never personally bought into it. The reason is because you don't see that on his other cards. He's almost always referred to as Irv/Irving or simply Young. I don't know that he has a single other card where he's called Cy.

I've scoured through old newspapers for this, too. You sometimes saw a reference to the nickname but usually in conjunction with his real name to avoid confusion (i.e. Irving Cy Young or Young Cy Young). I don't know that he was blatantly called Cy Young much (if at all). My general belief is that it was simply an error. They either used the wrong picture or had the wrong name. I've always had a problem with believing that the card was simply listing his nickname because you don't see that on his other issues (i.e. T206, Fan Craze, E98, etc. His E98 card, curiously, has quotation marks around the 'Cy', kind of treating it like a nickname. But I think that was probably done because the pictures used the same ones as E97 and it was a way to recognize that it wasn't THE Cy Young.

One issue with the dating theory that actually ties into this is that, if the cards were printed after December 1908 and intended to feature Irv, he had long since left Boston since he went to Pittsburgh in the middle of that season. Cy Young, meanwhile, pitched with Boston for all of 1908. If your dating theory is correct, I have an even stronger belief that the card was supposed to feature Cy since Irv had left Boston midway through the season.

In short, I think we have a long way to go to solving this, haha!

[Webster]

The use of "Cy" may well have been the wrong name, but I do believe they intended to represent Irv. Note the team, as well, is Boston National League.

The situation is similar for Joe Kelley, the only other Boston Nat'l player depicted in the series. He was released in December of 1908. Given that Schlei was depicted with New York, it is most likely that the cards were prepared AFTER both Kelley and Young departed from the Doves.

I would also note that there at least two players depicted from each of the 9 teams represented in the series, further suggesting that the inclusion of Irv was the intention (otherwise Kelley would be the only Boston Nat'l leaguer).

[Cozumeleno]

Yeah, it definitely could be. I don't know that we'll ever fully know. I just wonder why they wouldn't have gotten the team name correct if it happened well in advance of the printing (assuming the late 1908 or early 1909 print date). Here's what we know, assuming that print timeline.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Cozumeleno

Yeah, it definitely could be. I don't know that we'll ever fully know. I just wonder why they wouldn't have gotten the team name correct if it happened well in advance of the printing (assuming the late 1908 or early 1909 print date). Here's what we know, assuming that print timeline.

Another thing confusing to me is why they didn't get it right on Irv if they made a correction in 1910? Irv spent the entire 1909 season in Minneapolis. Still, he was acquired by the White Sox in August, 1909. By 1910 he could have been corrected to show him with the White Sox just as easily as having "Cy" with Cleveland. Also, if the idea was to have two players for each of the teams represented, adding Irv as a Chicago southsider would have meshed nicely with the now "Billy" Sullivan who is checklisted as the only White Sox player.

[Cozumeleno]

I think by then it was clearly supposed to be Cy. That's evidenced by the fact that the team was changed to Cleveland as Irv never played there. There's no doubt to me that, if nothing else, the card was changed to be a Cy Young card after that change was made.

I think the artwork remaining the same after the team change to Cleveland (and in the case of Sullivan) was merely a case of not wanting to create an entirely new picture. They just passed it off as Irv. Easy to change print/type - not as easy to find a new artist, get a new rendering, etc.