Hey, pennant guys

bocca001 · #1 04-02-2018, 03:38 PM

Ok, so here are some close ups (best I could do while framed). You can see what appears to be some damage around some of the letters (white fabric). The tassels also differ from the one currently online (with the notch in mine, not in the online version).

The Seals on mine differ from the one online in terms of a) placement of the two seals (the online one is further from the border and rotated clockwise), b) you can see a nose on mine, but not on the online one, and c) the flipper on the right seal looks different (the currently online one has a horizontal line across the flipper that mine does not have.

Egner's book doesn't show the tassels, but the flipper on mine is consistent with his, the placement of the Seals on mine is consistent with his, the nose is consistent with his (you have to zoom in on the book photo with a camera to see it) and the fact that mine is oversized is consistent with his.

Not sure what that all tells me, other than mine is much more consistent with Egner's book. I still think it might be the exact same one.

I can't get a picture of the back without undoing the frame, but there is no label on it or any evidence of a label.

thetahat · #2 04-02-2018, 04:22 PM

I can�t say one way or the other with 100% confidence, but those of you who have known embroidered oversized pennants (like from pre-1920), have you ever seen two colors that are both sewn, one over the other (to create an outline)? Mine are all one-color ...

Bugsy · #3 04-02-2018, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bocca001

Ok, so here are some close ups (best I could do while framed). You can see what appears to be some damage around some of the letters (white fabric). The tassels also differ from the one currently online (with the notch in mine, not in the online version).

The Seals on mine differ from the one online in terms of a) placement of the two seals (the online one is further from the border and rotated clockwise), b) you can see a nose on mine, but not on the online one, and c) the flipper on the right seal looks different (the currently online one has a horizontal line across the flipper that mine does not have.

Egner's book doesn't show the tassels, but the flipper on mine is consistent with his, the placement of the Seals on mine is consistent with his, the nose is consistent with his (you have to zoom in on the book photo with a camera to see it) and the fact that mine is oversized is consistent with his.

Not sure what that all tells me, other than mine is much more consistent with Egner's book. I still think it might be the exact same one.

I can't get a picture of the back without undoing the frame, but there is no label on it or any evidence of a label.

I don't think EFF stitched images onto their pennants. If it is a repro, I doubt they did it.

bocca001 · #4 04-02-2018, 06:46 PM

I had time to do some searching while my son was at practice. The Seals logo and lettering seems to match better with Seals Uniforms from 1938-1939, not the 1915-1920 dates mentioned by Egner. Or, the 1927 date mentioned by the E-bay seller. See the images below from Ebbets. The pennant logo is not an exact match of the logo used by Ebbets (see the hat), although it is similar in many ways. The Orange lettering on the 1939 jersey is pretty close.

And, trust me, I'm curious to know about the true age of the pennant, even if it is more recent. I know it doesn't match the E-bay one and does match the Egner book one. I also believe mine has a decent amount of age. How much age? I'm not certain.

thetahat · #5 04-02-2018, 08:04 PM

Marc, I find it interesting that your pennant has horizontal stitching along the top edge of the white strip (and presumably bottom edge). I can see it faintly in your close up. It makes it impossible to slide a stick or dowel inside. I�ve only seen this once before and it was a very old vintage pennant. This may be another important distinction from what is currently on eBay.

bocca001 · #6 04-02-2018, 09:27 PM

Greg- Good eyes. It does have horizontal stitching on both the bottom and top. I probably have about 200 pennants. I see two others with the horizontal stitching: Both are pretty old college pennants that also have stitched on letters. One still has the tassels tied (I'm assume that they were tied to the dowel).

lefty147 · #7 04-04-2018, 01:54 PM

I was able to find the original color photo of the one used in the book. I do not remember where it originally came since so many people were emailing pictures at the time. I tried to find the picture of it before it was resized (to include the tassels) and could not locate it. I think this is the exact pennant you own Marc based on looking at the "S" at the end of Seals you can see the same 4 "nibbles" around the perimeter. Mike

bocca001 · #8 04-06-2018, 11:51 AM

So, as you can tell from Mike's post, it looks like I have the "real" Seals pennant from his book. But, after looking it over closely with a black light, it is clear that this real pennant isn't real old (the white threads light up). I reached out to seattlerainers and he told me that he thinks the pennant may have been produced in the 1990s, in conjunction with the "Runs, Hits, and and Era" museum exhibit. I'd be curious to know if anyone has ever seen another (or if I have the market cornered).

So, that hurts a bit, as I know I paid a couple hundred for this about 6 years ago. This was one of the first pennants I picked up when I got back into collecting. If I knew then what I know now, I would have realized that the price was really too low if it was a vintage PCL pennant (especially Seals). So it goes.

I am curious to know if any of you have used a black light on your pennants. If you have, what is the oldest pennant with white threads that "light up"?

The good news is that everything on eBay has been on sale on lately, even when buyers accept best offers (thanks, Rob). So I've attached a picture of my "on sale" purchases to end this on a happy note.

seattlerainiers · #9 04-06-2018, 12:11 PM

As Marc said, I communicated with him via private message about this pennant. I got more specific information yesterday over lunch with Jerry Cohen of Ebbets Field Flannels.

This Seals pennant was produced by "Cooperstown Co" in the 1990s. Jerry knows the owner of the company, and said that this fellow had high hopes for selling these commercially at the time of production, but that it wasn't successful.

icollectDCsports · #10 04-06-2018, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bocca001

So, as you can tell from Mike's post, it looks like I have the "real" Seals pennant from his book. But, after looking it over closely with a black light, it is clear that this real pennant isn't real old (the white threads light up). I reached out to seattlerainers and he told me that he thinks the pennant may have been produced in the 1990s, in conjunction with the "Runs, Hits, and and Era" museum exhibit. I'd be curious to know if anyone has ever seen another (or if I have the market cornered).

So, that hurts a bit, as I know I paid a couple hundred for this about 6 years ago. This was one of the first pennants I picked up when I got back into collecting. If I knew then what I know now, I would have realized that the price was really too low if it was a vintage PCL pennant (especially Seals). So it goes.

I am curious to know if any of you have used a black light on your pennants. If you have, what is the oldest pennant with white threads that "light up"?

The good news is that everything on eBay has been on sale on lately, even when buyers accept best offers (thanks, Rob). So I've attached a picture of my "on sale" purchases to end this on a happy note.

Sorry it didn't turn out to be what you'd hoped, but thank you for starting the discussion about your pennant -- and others like it. It's been interesting and informative.

ooo-ribay · #11 04-08-2018, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bocca001

I am curious to know if any of you have used a black light on your pennants. If you have, what is the oldest pennant with white threads that "light up"?

The good news is that everything on eBay has been on sale on lately, even when buyers accept best offers (thanks, Rob). So I've attached a picture of my "on sale" purchases to end this on a happy note.

Great pickups, Marc!

I have never used or heard of the black light test. What is it that then test proves or suggests?

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